Star Wars Universe Discussion Thread

All non-Nolan related film, tv, and streaming discussions.
User avatar
Posts: 3164
Joined: January 2015
Location: Poland
JJ gave him the best part he had in these movies in TFA, though. That's what really hooked John into these movies. It seems like he wasn't a fan of the storyline he had in TLJ more than TROS where he just mentioned that JJ was tasked with a job he didn't even want, to patch the "wrongs" of TLJ and he doesn't blame him for the shortcomings of the last movie where JJ was hired to basically undo what TLJ did.

I liked TLJ but John definitely doesn't and I get where he's coming from. A lot of TLJ was retreading the same "should I join the resistance or not" dilemma from the first film while Rey and Kylo got really great meaty parts and amazing moments in the film. I'd also add Luke to this list but what bothered John here was that in TFA he was basically the co-lead with Daisy with a promise that we will have him being a force user (we see him with the lightsaber in promo materials). TLJ relegated him to a subplot that most people really didn't like. Even people who enjoyed TLJ usually felt that the Canto Bait scenes make the film lose momentum.

User avatar
Posts: 20092
Joined: June 2010
Location: The White City
m4st4 wrote:
September 2nd, 2020, 2:25 pm
All they had to do was take his character after TLJ and further develop Finn as a resistance leader, along with Kelly Marie. Instead they reversed him back to TFA in early parts, constantly yelling and salivating over Rey, while being a Force user(???), ridiculously, behind the scenes.

I see it as a case of 'good' guy 'bad' guy on set. Abrams is a loveable guy who gave him the opportunity in the first place. Rian seems to be a specific sort of character who you either enjoy or don't. Cast of Knives Out loved him. TLJ crew not so much, for the most part. Somewhat understandable, he separated them for the story purpose. Narrative over actor's needs, and Daisy/Boyega were quite close. Not to mention Mark's constant whining over who Luke is supposed to be.
I think it boils down to how JJ set him up to be this epic hero in Episodes VIII and IX, and instead Rian gave Finn the most reviled story arc since Padme and Anakin in Attack of the Clones that is kinda-sorta-not-really a retread of the exact same arc he has in The Force Awakens. Boyega says Rian had no clue what to do with Finn. He's not wrong. JJ tried giving him the force back and become a great military leader. Hell, Poe is more of a main character in The Last Jedi than Finn is.

Agree or disagree, he's defending JJ here while basically all but calling RJ racist for sidelining a Black actor after he was supposed to be more narratively important.


-Vader

User avatar
Posts: 2700
Joined: April 2011
I wouldn't discount somebody or somebodies acting like an Isaac Perlmutter once did in the MCU above the writer/directors as well, in addition to their generally shitty management of their new Star Wars.

Posts: 55632
Joined: May 2010
Finn had one of the best scenes in TLJ and a prospect for the future. Rian took his character from TFA and re-invented it, similar beats but more nuance and with added romantic flavor. It would've built into something in TROS if Terrio/Abrams Wanted it.
Boyega disliked initial 'cowardice' of the character and separation from Ridley.

User avatar
Posts: 13166
Joined: February 2011
Finn's arc in Jedi has literally nothing to do with his arc in Awakens.

Posts: 55632
Joined: May 2010
Master Virgo wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 7:02 am
Finn's arc in Jedi has literally nothing to do with his arc in Awakens.
Nothing? It mirrors a conflicted individual who isn't sure about his purpose in life and doesn't want to put all of his coins in the same slot just yet. And by the end finds his cause, and purpose, by almost sacrificing himself for the resistance and finding comfort in another rebel. So it's both a mirror of TFA at the beginning and a sure footing base for the finale.

And then come Terrio/Abrams and take that, and decide to backpedal yet again by doing... what exactly? I forgot. Semi character hints for fuck knows when.

-his entire focus goes back to Rey
-ditches Kelly Marie
-finds yet another interesting woman
-might be Force sensitive? Maybe?
-The End

I firmly believe Boyega had issues with how his characters was still progressing in TLJ in a much slower pace than others, and then by the time TROS hit he was regressing.

So, TLJ - actor has an issue with how his character is progressing
TROS - actor has an issue with studio fucking up everything because loud portion of fanbase wanted things differently, and JJ/Terrio were there to... fix it? But they are the ones who wrote and directed the whole thing.

Imagine if Disney gave Rian his third part? The narrative would naturally flow and progress forward, as it was set-up by the end of TLJ.

Finally, character doesn't have to be a leader and a winner to win 'the game'. I never saw Finn as a loser type character even when he wanted to escape the mess at the start of TLJ. Hell, one of my favorites was Benicio. He was uncharacteristic.

Edit: All of my musings on the specific narratives have nothing to do with Boyega's experience as black actor in Disney machinery. Now, his experience doesn''t seem to mirror Ray Fisher's, it's more of a statement contra how Finn was used in the trilogy as a character. I would argue that most characters in the sequels were fucked over by both directors since the center narrative wasn' t straight from the start.
Last edited by m4st4 on September 3rd, 2020, 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Posts: 13166
Joined: February 2011
At the end of Awakens/beginning of Jedi he still feels very little for the cause. He's there for Rey and her only. That's all he cares about.

It's actually at the end of Jedi that he wants to fight against oppression. But the real lesson that he learns is the catharsis in compassion over anger.

Stomping a city of oppressors is not what it's really about. Liberating those who are oppressed is where it counts.

Posts: 55632
Joined: May 2010
Master Virgo wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 7:30 am
At the end of Awakens/beginning of Jedi he still feels very little for the cause. He's there for Rey and her only. That's all he cares about.

It's actually at the end of Jedi that he wants to fight against oppression. But the real lesson that he learns is the catharsis in compassion over anger.

Stomping a city of oppressors is not what it's really about. Liberating those who are oppressed is where it counts.
And how do you liberate the oppressed? 😉
Devil's advocate, but I see what you mean man.

I'm a Dune a fanatic so you understand my scepticism when it comes to liberators and the oppressors lol. But Disney is more straight forward. After all Star Wars is a kids fantasy first and foremost. We adults just hijacked it.

User avatar
Posts: 7314
Joined: January 2014
In other "Disney is horrid trash" news:
“No. At the beginning there was toying with like an Obi-Wan connection,” Ridley said when asked if she had known Rey’s origins were in the Palpatine family. “There were like different versions, and then it really went to that she was no one. Then it came to Episode IX and J.J. pitched me the film and was like, ‘Oh yeah, Palpatine’s grandaughter.” I was like, ‘Awesome!’ Then two weeks later he was like, ‘Oh, we’re not sure.’ So it kept changing. Even as we were filming I wasn’t sure what the answer was going to be.”
https://www.indiewire.com/2020/09/daisy ... 234585188/

:lol: What a joke

User avatar
Posts: 42908
Joined: May 2010
ChristNolan wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 12:47 pm
In other "Disney is horrid trash" news:
“No. At the beginning there was toying with like an Obi-Wan connection,” Ridley said when asked if she had known Rey’s origins were in the Palpatine family. “There were like different versions, and then it really went to that she was no one. Then it came to Episode IX and J.J. pitched me the film and was like, ‘Oh yeah, Palpatine’s grandaughter.” I was like, ‘Awesome!’ Then two weeks later he was like, ‘Oh, we’re not sure.’ So it kept changing. Even as we were filming I wasn’t sure what the answer was going to be.”
https://www.indiewire.com/2020/09/daisy ... 234585188/

:lol: What a joke
I mean this was obvious. Thanks Daisy for confirming though lol.

Post Reply