Define 'great'. Brubaker is great. Then there's Civil War and Winter Soldier (movies), then Joe Johnston. I'd say it's a solid three, as in 'good', at best. And that is if you completely forget about the whole Red Skull subplot, which was done as a literal adaptation of the original - serviceable, but ultimately there's so much better out there on that particular matter.

m4st4 wrote:Define 'great'. Brubaker is great. Then there's Civil War and Winter Soldier (movies), then Joe Johnston. I'd say it's a solid three, as in 'good', at best. And that is if you completely forget about the whole Red Skull subplot, which was done as a literal adaptation of the original - serviceable, but ultimately there's so much better out there on that particular matter.

What Marvel decided to do was ballsy: not integrate Cap into the modern Marvel Universe that had already been defined, yet place him within his original time period of WW2. Cap is an idealist, and also a pacifist in many ways, and that is antithetical to much if not all of the other superheroes. First Avenger is escapism at its finest, and by choosing the time period they did, it comes across as a hell of a lot more genuine and earnest than most other superhero films.

The old-fashioned nature of the story and Chris Evans' spot on portrait of a man who wants to help his country yet doesn't like bullets, stands in stark contrast to the narcissism and god-like features of the other heroes in the MCU. It also helps to have a strong female protagonist in First Avenger, a solid supporting cast, and an over the top villain. First Avenger plays on on familiar tropes and does it spectacularly.

Some level various criticisms against the film as a bit campy or as you mentioned, the Red Skull plot line. However, it's all incorporated for substitute for the Nazi machine that isn't mentioned. The film isn't concerned with showing us the horrors of WW2, as we are already well aware. But there has to be a mechanism to show the men behind the horror, and Hydra and Red Skull fit the bill. We have seen the major impact Hydra has had on future MCU films, and Red Skull is largely responsible for not only their rise to power, and if I had to wager a guess, it isn't the last we've seen of Red Skull, and thus his importance may be even more evident than it appears at the moment.

Also, the ending is pretty damn heartfelt. "I had a date." The interaction between Peggy and Steve is so well done that those 4 words have more impact than most anything else in the MCU universe.

So, it's brilliant. That's your opinion, fine. In my opinion it's a good movie = three out of five stars, although I have some problems with the final third. Like I said it's almost page-for-page Simon-Kirby, minus the finesse that comes with later authors, especially Brubaker, who wrote most of the character defining moments. Which we did get afterwards in cinematic form, but unfortunately not with Red Skull, who suffers from the usual MCU problem - lame villainitis.

And it's hardly ballsy considering Cap's origins - I'd say WWII setting is essential, necessary, that's his inception. For example, you cannot say the same for Wonder Woman, which will be set in WWI next year, most likely to differentiate one legend from another, but she is not tied to one particular war as much as any sort of war, that's why her sidekick and lover Steve Trevor can easily be a WWI, WWII or Middle East veteran, the setting changes since the ancient times, but the focal point remains the same: Diana, a goddess, Themyscira - island of Amazons, world of men, whereas Steve Rogers is very much an American hero, born and bred during World War II, Axis vs. Allied powers... that's his legacy and it comes with a powerful set of iconic WWII imagery: his helmet, his shield, his veteran boots.

I agree about the ending... and the supporting cast, especially Tucci and Atwell.

How do you rank the sequels then?

m4st4 wrote:So, it's brilliant. That's your opinion, fine. In my opinion it's a good movie = three out of five stars, although I have some problems with the final third. Like I said it's almost page-for-page Simon-Kirby, minus the finesse that comes with later authors, especially Brubaker, who wrote most of the character defining moments. Which we did get afterwards in cinematic form, but unfortunately not with Red Skull, who suffers from the usual MCU problem - lame villainitis.

And it's hardly ballsy considering Cap's origins - I'd say WWII setting is essential, necessary, that's his inception. For example, you cannot say the same for Wonder Woman, which will be set in WWI next year, most likely to differentiate one legend from another, but she is not tied to one particular war as much as any sort of war, that's why her sidekick and lover Steve Trevor can easily be a WWI, WWII or Middle East veteran, the setting changes since the ancient times, but the focal point remains the same: Diana, a goddess, Themyscira - island of Amazons, world of men, whereas Steve Rogers is very much an American hero, born and bred during World War II, Axis vs. Allied powers... that's his legacy and it comes with a powerful set of iconic WWII imagery: his helmet, his shield, his veteran boots.

I agree about the ending... and the supporting cast, especially Tucci and Atwell.

How do you rank the sequels then?

Winter Soldier is the best MCU film, in my opinion. It's just a tighter story than Civil War, which I consider either my 2nd or 3rd favorite with 2008's Iron Man. The criticism I levied against Civil War also happens to be one of the reasons it's one of my favorites: it juggles so much so well but still feels like a Captain America film at its core.

One of my only criticisms of CIvil War is the introduction of Spider-Man. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it and think this iteration of the character has potential, but I didn't think it was necessary or essential to introduce him to us in Civil War. It just made the film a bit more bloated than it needed to be. Also, the fact that Stark would find this kid and immediately ask him to be on his team is kind of bewildering to me.

I agree with you on Spidey. It's my second favorite superhero (most recently tied with Wondie and just above Cap) but it's obvious how and why that last character piece was integrated within the story.

And yet, like so many other things in the movie, it works. You go with the flow. Mostly because of Holland and Tomei, RDJ has a great chemistry with both, and he's part of the biggest setpiece in the movie which instantly means some of the coolest moves.

Still, it's nothing compared to its comic book counterpart where 'event syndrome' pretty quickly kicks in and there are a lot more pieces to juggle. The less is more, hopefully Infinity War feels the same, it's going to be quite a challenge.

m4st4 wrote:I agree with you on Spidey. It's my second favorite superhero (most recently tied with Wondie and just above Cap) but it's obvious how and why that last character piece was integrated within the story.

And yet, like so many other things in the movie, it works. You go with the flow. Mostly because of Holland and Tomei, RDJ has a great chemistry with both, and he's part of the biggest setpiece in the movie which instantly means some of the coolest moves.

Still, it's nothing compared to its comic book counterpart where 'event syndrome' pretty quickly kicks in and there are a lot more pieces to juggle. The less is more, hopefully Infinity War feels the same, it's going to be quite a challenge.

I have no idea how they're going to juggle Infinity War with so many characters. I also think it is absolutely essential to have Thanos get off his ass and out of his chair before Infinity War. For people unfamiliar with the source material, they need to know why there has been a 10 year build-up of this character.

It's Marvel's Old Testament that opens the door for more crazy cosmic stuff, much like New Gods are for DC, I'm sure he'll more than stretch those legs.

antovolk wrote:

no actual criticisms as usual well done

ArmandFancypants wrote:

antovolk wrote:

no actual criticisms as usual well done

I mean, I find these annoying too, but the fact that anyone would expect spoof trailers on YouTube to be any form genuine criticism is perhaps a sign of how low film criticism has fallen more than anything else.