Nolan Fans

Allstar wrote:How many critics have called TFA a masterpiece? Many critics have for The Revenant.

That's my point.

I know, you've said so before. It's not a Tree of Life situation. I don't think as many are raving about the flick as you're saying. And many, many critics think Force Awakens comes refreshingly amazingly close to touching two of the greatest movies of all time. They don't say it does, but it gives them that special unique Star Wars-y feeling that the other two did. That's not so insignificant. Plus, mass entertainments are almost never called masterpieces unless they double as an art movie, ala Fury Road. I haven't even seen The Revenant, I'm just talking purely about consensus.

RIFA wrote: The argument that something is pretentious usually has it's birth in personal envy/jealousy.

The movies that are indeed pretentious are always obviously so. Neorealism is not pretentious filmmaking. It's part of the world of art-film mostly and Inarritu is just a talented motherfucker when it comes to it. Let's not confuse one's ability and tact with him being pretentious about the medium he's working in.

I mean... if you really wanna call The Revenant and Birdman pretentious, then be fair about it and call Children of Men, Drive, 2001, 432, and anything done by Bergman, Fellini, Godard or Tarkovsky pretentious too. I mean, you can even claim Interstellar/Inception are pretentious.

Pretentious must be one of the most poorly used words when it comes to painting an artistic effort.

Pretentious, as I'm using it in this specific context, refers to over-ambitious I'm so art masturbation. It's mostly about tone and presentation. Let me give you an example. I have a lot of friends in music. One of them introduces himself to me. "Hey, I'm X. I'm trying to make my way to do music for a living, it's a blast I love it." Another says "Hey, I'm X. I'm an artist and musician." Well, to most people (maybe not to you) the latter comes off as grating pretentiousness. It's a status, self-acclaim thing. When people ask me for a living I always say I'm in insurance but moonlight as a critic on a small site I run. It's by design I introduce myself that way—I know how wildly pretentious introducing yourself as a "film critic "sounds. Believe me, people never react "well" when somebody tells them that. I've seen it happen a bunch with friends in the press.

Innatitu runs around town talking about finding truth and finding his truth, and how to find his truth he had to run into the middle of nowhere and do all this crazy extreme shit. His whole approach is high and mighty, from my throne unto the rest. Pretentious, to me, as I'm using it now, mostly refers to trying to have a level of artistic merit and depth like SUPER hard, like really really hard, but in a way that isn't natural or organic or fluid to you and your art and that you don't pull off. Maybe I'd feel differently about him if I thought he was a genuinely great artist/filmmaker and made a single great movie. But I don't think any of those things. But when I hear Tarkovsky, Bergman, or Kubrick I'm always "wow." They're hitting something pretty legitimate.

Final example: Nolan's business about "unconventional sound mixes" in Interstellar is pretentious in the same way I'm using it right now. Using IMAX, and all the trouble and expense it is, I would not call pretentious. It's as much about how much you pull off your lofty intent as your attitude. It's a combination of things.

FYI I'm still crazy pumped for Revenant and for all I know it'll wind up in my top few of the year.

-Vader

Vader182 wrote:Innatitu runs around town talking about finding truth and finding his truth, and how to find his truth he had to run into the middle of nowhere and do all this crazy extreme shit. His whole approach is high and mighty, from my throne unto the rest.

I'm sure you're familiar with the names we both mentioned. Especially Bergman. This can be applied to them as well. Matter of fact, if we go further...

Vader182 wrote:Pretentious, to me, as I'm using it now, mostly refers to trying to have a level of artistic merit and depth like SUPER hard, like really really hard, but in a way that isn't natural or organic or fluid to you and your art and that you don't pull off.

... we come to this point you made. Which indeed is what pretentious means. I know you know what the word means. I'm just not sure you're using it properly. First of all, it's hard to talk about something being pretentious when it comes to the work of a person that has a clear vision of the things that he wants to achieve, especially when this vision contains elements that can be easily thought of as being part of a pretentious approach. This is why I'm saying that in reality, the pretentious films are obviously so because they're usually made by people that never shared that kind of vision yet somehow did it. And then you ask yourself "Why?". You can't just do the same and run around the mill and yell "Bergman is pretentious" unless you're really unaware of Bergman's vision, his work ethic, his personality, as well as his past filmography. The same thing is applied for Inarritu. He clearly has a vision, he clearly has a work ethic that allows him to achieve his vision, and his filmography is proof of his vision as a filmmaker. He's an artist and he's not afraid to say it because he reached that level. Godard wasn't afraid of saying it either after only 3 films. Confidence can come as braggadocious or pretentious but it's something we have to go past and just assess the man's work. But this is not the issue here... the issue is the next thing you said.

Vader182 wrote:Maybe I'd feel differently about him if I thought he was a genuinely great artist/filmmaker and made a single great movie.

A-Ha! This is it. You don't consider him a great artist/filmmaker. You don't even consider he made one single great movie. Of course the questions most ask in this case would be "How could he pull this off? What's so special about this?". And there are always only two answers, one used by those that view him as a great director and one used by those that do not share the same opinion. He's either a great filmmaker or he's just pretentious. You already know on which side you are.

Star Wars Episode 7 - nitpick till you're dead but jj took the weird, sour taste of the prequels out of our collective mouths and that's no easy feat

The Seventh Seal - if you're really caught up about your own mortality making the seventh seal is pretty much the best way i can imagine dealing with it

Seven Samurai - forgot how good it was. textbook definition of how to make a movie. controversial opinion i know

A Very Murray Christmas - really funny and surprisingly good music. muy bueno

all in all a lovely xmas break

Knight of Cups is on. I must resist.

Inside Out

Eh... it was okay. It had some nice moments a few chuckles ,but outside of that there's some annoying generalizations about men and women as parents that just made me not connect with the film. The mom is the high intellect one who has to suffer the stupidity of the dad who only cares about the big game and is otherwise withdrawn and doesn't "understand" his daughter, meanwhile the mom is so sick of the father she's fantasizing about the heartthrob cuban pilot she "gave up for this." These things don't make the movie offensive or anything, but it just makes it not appeal to me. A bunch of cultural gender roles we need to get rid of. Otherwise it had its moments, but I wouldn't call it one of the better movies of the year.

I liked Bing Bong though!

I recommend "When Marnie Was There" over this which is a better film about a girl dealing with introversion and change.

Echovoid_52 wrote:Inside Out

Eh... it was okay. It had some nice moments a few chuckles ,but outside of that there's some annoying generalizations about men and women as parents that just made me not connect with the film. The mom is the high intellect one who has to suffer the stupidity of the dad who only cares about the big game and is otherwise withdrawn and doesn't "understand" his daughter, meanwhile the mom is so sick of the father she's fantasizing about the heartthrob cuban pilot she "gave up for this." These things don't make the movie offensive or anything, but it just makes it not appeal to me. A bunch of cultural gender roles we need to get rid of. Otherwise it had its moments, but I wouldn't call it one of the better movies of the year.

I liked Bing Bong though!

I recommend "When Marnie Was There" over this which is a better film about a girl dealing with introversion and change.

Couldn't agree more!

Burnt

7.6/10

Really enjoyed this one. Great cast and cool story. When Cooper got mad in the kitchen and yelled at everyone it was pretty hot tbh.

Dodd wrote:Burnt

7.6/10

Really enjoyed this one. Great cast and cool story. When Cooper got mad in the kitchen and yelled at everyone it was pretty hot tbh.

Dodd wrote:Burnt

7.6/10

Really enjoyed this one. Great cast and cool story. When Cooper got mad in the kitchen and yelled at everyone it was pretty hot tbh.

Dodd wrote:Burnt

7.6/10

Really enjoyed this one. Great cast and cool story. When Cooper got mad in the kitchen and yelled at everyone it was pretty hot tbh.

whats wrong with you