I feel like there was a missed opportunity in batman's character development in TDK. After Rachel died, the dynamic between Batman and the joker, and between Batman and Harvey Dent did not change one bit. I think it wouldve been great if it had been. Bruce Wayne was fueled to become Batman through vengeance, yet there was no hint of vengeance in his pursuit of the joker...there was no sympathy between Batman and Dent.
I think they should be careful not to miss opportunities like that in the final installment.
talli wrote:I feel like there was a missed opportunity in batman's character development in TDK. After Rachel died, the dynamic between Batman and the joker, and between Batman and Harvey Dent did not change one bit. I think it wouldve been great if it had been. Bruce Wayne was fueled to become Batman through vengeance, yet there was no hint of vengeance in his pursuit of the joker...there was no sympathy between Batman and Dent.
I think they should be careful not to miss opportunities like that in the final installment.
He wanted to kill the killer of his parents because he wanted vengeance and realised it's wrong. The whole reason for his self-exile was that he wanted to discipline himself into cutting off similar emotions from himself.
That was the 1st reason he wasn't shown any angrier than before. The other reason is that he already WAS angry. He beated up Joker pretty hard and realised that's just what the Joker wanted. After seeing Rachel dead he got sober.
EDIT: To sum up - to show im angry all over again would defeat the purpose he chose for himself.
prince0gotham wrote:
He wanted to kill the killer of his parents because he wanted vengeance and realised it's wrong. The whole reason for his self-exile was that he wanted to discipline himself into cutting off similar emotions from himself.
That was the 1st reason he wasn't shown any angrier than before. The other reason is that he already WAS angry. He beated up Joker pretty hard and realised that's just what the Joker wanted. After seeing Rachel dead he got sober.
Yes to this! I would also add that Batman isn't Bruce Wayne for Dent. As Bruce, he was pretty much jealous but was already trying to cover up his feelings by coming out with other girls he did not care about, why would he have showed any sympathy to Dent's situation as Batman? And even there, he told Dent he lost someone too and that it wasn't a reason to want revenge or kill other people.
As Bruce he never got the chance to talk to Dent again (well I think so ), and I don't think he could have said much as he thought Rachel was going to leave Dent to go with him and he was trying to hide his feelings for her anyway.
It would be way more interestrng if he showed a hint of anger, if we saw him battling his emotion and trying to remain disciplined rather than remaining emotionally detached
talli wrote:It would be way more interestrng if he showed a hint of anger, if we saw him battling his emotion and trying to remain disciplined rather than remaining emotionally detached
Do you really think the movie needs this or is it you just wanting to see additional footage of the movie? Or probably a whole other sequel?
I should also add another reason it would be entirely pointless: The only emotion the viewer can recognize from Bale while in costume and under the hood is anger (or nothing). Anything else is entirely pointless to even try to express, because it would be hilarious and rediculous. I know that with body language it can be achieved usually, I mean showing him that he's confused, but that can be only done with a short scene of him looking around and turning his head or something like that (I can't even picture it). I don't imagine him grabbing his own head and sobbing 'what should I do, oh poor me' either.
The other thing is he can allow Bruce to be confused. Not Batman.
The other thing is they had to hurry because the passengers and the prisoners on both ferries would die.
The other thing is him hesitating over it would only result in a scene where Joker uses that to his advantage (grabing a pipe and beating him down or something like that would've been almost as chiched and stupid as Joker yelling at Batman 'Oh look, behind you' and Batman buying it.)
Another thing to point out would be the shot of Alfred approaching Bruce who is slouched on that chair in defeat. As Alfred walks towards him, you see his gauntlets, cowl, and other accessories lying on the floor, it's very clear he was battling some emotions, even when he talks to Alfred he's still in the midst of getting it together. They don't have to show it all. Leaving some of it to the imagination is refreshing.
EDIT: And as for the dynamics between the characters changing or not changing, look how much dedication Bruce has put into Batman already. If he let his emotions get the better of him, he would have been no different than Harvey at the end.
Last edited by jcvargas09 on February 26th, 2011, 3:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
jcvargas09 wrote:Another thing to point out would be the shot of Alfred approaching Bruce who is slouched on that chair in defeat. As Alfred walks towards him, you see his gauntlets, cowl, and other accessories lying on the floor, it's very clear he was battling some emotions, even when he talks to Alfred he's still in the midst of getting it together. They don't have to show it all. Leaving some of it to the imagination is refreshing.
jcvargas09 wrote:Another thing to point out would be the shot of Alfred approaching Bruce who is slouched on that chair in defeat. As Alfred walks towards him, you see his gauntlets, cowl, and other accessories lying on the floor, it's very clear he was battling some emotions, even when he talks to Alfred he's still in the midst of getting it together. They don't have to show it all. Leaving some of it to the imagination is refreshing.
Yeah I meant to mention it when I said that he was already in battle and that he can let Bruce hesitate. This was a much better decision than what talli suggested and after that scene the Joker didn't have much to tell him that would confuse him and therefore there was no real point for him to battle his anger. If he was angry it would've been egoistic and he was already out of line by his own standards.
talli wrote:It would be way more interestrng if he showed a hint of anger, if we saw him battling his emotion and trying to remain disciplined rather than remaining emotionally detached
Do you really think the movie needs this or is it you just wanting to see additional footage of the movie? Or probably a whole other sequel?
You misunderstood me. I'm not advocating for additional or different writing, or more scenes. I'm saying those scenes could have been executed better....played differently by Bale, or directed better by Nolan
), and I don't think he could have said much as he thought Rachel was going to leave Dent to go with him and he was trying to hide his feelings for her anyway.
