I agree with the ones who think it's a tie and that TDKR might show Batman winning over. In TDK it seems like the Joker wins but I don't think it's totally true.gluvnast wrote: For starters, Batman did not save the ferries unless you considered Joker's plan B which was to blow both of them up as "saving them". The people saved themselves, and even with that the Joker was technically right considering the fact that those so-called innocent civilians voted FOR the prisoners to get blown up. It was only due to the guilty conscious of the conducter as the reason why that wasn't achieved and the righteous "criminal" on the other boat.
It basically goes to show that criminals can be good, but every good person can turn corrupted which was exactly the Joker's ideology with the successful turn of Harvey Dent as his proof.
The Joker won in that regard because he knew if the people learned about how Dent transformed into Two-Face they would all lose hope, it didn't matter that Gordon and Batman covered up this fact, just the fact the BELIEVED the Joker's ideology through that coverup is shining proof that the Joker won. If it wasn't the case then Gordon would of told the public the truth.
I somehow do think that Harvey Dent wasn't really a good man, but yeah the Joker was able of corrupting him. I do not think though that if people knew about Dent being Two-face they would lose hope... Gordon did not lose hope. I think that if people knew Batman as Gordon or Alfred does, then they would know that some people are good and can stay true to themselves despite horrible things that may happen in their lives. Batman/Bruce shows just by being himself that the Joker lost somehow, that some people can resist being corrupted. But Batman has to stay a symbol, that's why no one can know who he really is, that's why the truth can't be told to the public (and also because as others stated before, criminals would be released if the truth was known) therefor the Joker won somehow. So yeah, it's kind of hard to tell I think