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bootsy wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 6:18 pm
PowerDump wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 5:49 pm
bootsy wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 5:27 pm

You take Kobe off that team and put another really good, All NBA wing player and they are winning titles. There were players during that era with similar skillsets to Kobe. There was NO player like Shaq during that era. Dwyane Wade won a title with Shaq not even in his prime anymore. Shaq's domination was not comparable to anything else in the NBA.

Kobe doesn't make many top 10 lists and he definitely doesn't make top 5. Top 5 is usually MJ, Lebron, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Bird, Duncan. These are players with multiple MVPs. Kobe has 1. He is probably a top 10-15 range but it's very hard to argue he's better than any of those players.
And I’m not arguing Shaq’s excellence, and Wade is the next best shooting guard of all time outside of MJ and Kobe so that isn’t saying much against Kobe. Kobe won 2 championships outside of Shaq, that negates the Kobe can’t win argument all together. You even say he’s probably top 10-15 and still dump on him which makes no sense (and if you hate him and think he’s that high why can someone with a neutral opinion think he should be rated higher?)

And you’re just making up the “he doesn’t make many top 10 lists” up. Freaking google it and he will show up on over half of those lists by actual sites (not random people). Actually listen to players when they are interviewed and a ton of them acknowledge Kobe’s excellence. Tracy Mcgrady even said he wouldn’t have won as much with Shaq as Kobe did in his prime. Larry Bird even said if he wanted to have a ton of fun playing the game he would pick Lebron but if wanted to win he would want to be on Kobe’s team. Magic Johnson even said Kobe was better.

Edit: As for the MVPs, I’m still not sure how to weigh that argument. James Harden has potential to have more than Kobe and he doesn’t even play defense. Kobe has like 9 all defensive first team selections.
It took Kobe to get a gift in Paul Gasol and Phil Jackson coming back for Kobe to win.

I don't care what Magic said. Kobe was not better than Magic.

Multiple MVPs weigh heavily in the argument. All of those players I mentioned won at least 3 MVPs except Duncan who won 2.
So you made no points. Was Phil Jackson the gift or was Jackson gifted with Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Kobe when coaching? And no I’m not even remotely hinting that Jackson wasn’t a great coach. Yep, Pau was great, like I said a winning championship team needs at least 2 really good players. I’d actually bet money that you never knew how elite Kobe was on defense until I pointed out the NBA record tying 9 all defensive first team selections since you said you could plug in any really good wing player with Shaq to win.

What percent of teams win with a garbage coach lol?

So you think he isn’t good but is possibly top 10-15? Can you make up your mind?

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Joined: June 2011
PowerDump wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 6:44 pm
bootsy wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 6:18 pm
PowerDump wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 5:49 pm


And I’m not arguing Shaq’s excellence, and Wade is the next best shooting guard of all time outside of MJ and Kobe so that isn’t saying much against Kobe. Kobe won 2 championships outside of Shaq, that negates the Kobe can’t win argument all together. You even say he’s probably top 10-15 and still dump on him which makes no sense (and if you hate him and think he’s that high why can someone with a neutral opinion think he should be rated higher?)

And you’re just making up the “he doesn’t make many top 10 lists” up. Freaking google it and he will show up on over half of those lists by actual sites (not random people). Actually listen to players when they are interviewed and a ton of them acknowledge Kobe’s excellence. Tracy Mcgrady even said he wouldn’t have won as much with Shaq as Kobe did in his prime. Larry Bird even said if he wanted to have a ton of fun playing the game he would pick Lebron but if wanted to win he would want to be on Kobe’s team. Magic Johnson even said Kobe was better.

Edit: As for the MVPs, I’m still not sure how to weigh that argument. James Harden has potential to have more than Kobe and he doesn’t even play defense. Kobe has like 9 all defensive first team selections.
It took Kobe to get a gift in Paul Gasol and Phil Jackson coming back for Kobe to win.

I don't care what Magic said. Kobe was not better than Magic.

Multiple MVPs weigh heavily in the argument. All of those players I mentioned won at least 3 MVPs except Duncan who won 2.
So you made no points. Was Phil Jackson the gift or was Jackson gifted with Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Kobe when coaching? And no I’m not even remotely hinting that Jackson wasn’t a great coach. Yep, Pau was great, like I said a winning championship team needs at least 2 really good players. I’d actually bet money that you never knew how elite Kobe was on defense until I pointed out the NBA record tying 9 all defensive first team selections since you said you could plug in any really good wing player with Shaq to win.

What percent of teams win with a garbage coach lol?

So you think he isn’t good but is possibly top 10-15? Can you make up your mind?
:facepalm: Lol at me not making points. I've been making points this entire conversation. FACTUAL points. I'm giving Kobe his props for being a top 15 player but I'm not going to give him props for being a sidekick for 3 of his 5 titles and then completely shitting the bed in Game 7 of the 2010 Finals only to have Gasol bail him out. I'm not giving him props for being a complete fraud and rapist.

So there. Anything else you want to discuss about this shit head you can do it on your own. I've made my points about Kobe and how I feel about him several times. You just don't like it and that's your problem not mine.

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Joined: June 2010
bootsy wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 7:25 pm
PowerDump wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 6:44 pm
bootsy wrote:
December 16th, 2018, 6:18 pm


It took Kobe to get a gift in Paul Gasol and Phil Jackson coming back for Kobe to win.

I don't care what Magic said. Kobe was not better than Magic.

Multiple MVPs weigh heavily in the argument. All of those players I mentioned won at least 3 MVPs except Duncan who won 2.
So you made no points. Was Phil Jackson the gift or was Jackson gifted with Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Kobe when coaching? And no I’m not even remotely hinting that Jackson wasn’t a great coach. Yep, Pau was great, like I said a winning championship team needs at least 2 really good players. I’d actually bet money that you never knew how elite Kobe was on defense until I pointed out the NBA record tying 9 all defensive first team selections since you said you could plug in any really good wing player with Shaq to win.

What percent of teams win with a garbage coach lol?

So you think he isn’t good but is possibly top 10-15? Can you make up your mind?
:facepalm: Lol at me not making points. I've been making points this entire conversation. FACTUAL points. I'm giving Kobe his props for being a top 15 player but I'm not going to give him props for being a sidekick for 3 of his 5 titles and then completely shitting the bed in Game 7 of the 2010 Finals only to have Gasol bail him out. I'm not giving him props for being a complete fraud and rapist.

So there. Anything else you want to discuss about this shit head you can do it on your own. I've made my points about Kobe and how I feel about him several times. You just don't like it and that's your problem not mine.
Who hasn’t shit the bed in playoffs or finals at least once if you’ve made it there as many times as he has? Magic Johnson did quite a few times. Freaking Lebron was bent over backwards by Jason Terry for a whole series. Again if you feel so strongly that he raped someone when it was never proven go for it, but I sure as hell better not see you being one of those, “innocent until proven guilty” people during this metoo movement.

You really haven’t made any points so thanks for leaving the conversation.

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Luka Doncic is special. So glad we drafted him

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Frankthetank wrote:
December 24th, 2018, 2:49 am
Luka Doncic is special. So glad we drafted him
Yeah he’s so fun to watch. It’s insane when looking at the competition he faced to get to the NBA versus players who go to college.

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Shoutout to Gallo for an insanely efficient season so far. hope he gets an Allstar nod


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This is a new day where athletes are a lot more open. He knows what he said will spark debate but he's created a platform for himself to say what's on his mind. This not about being classy. Was Ali not classy when he said he was the greatest? Lebron believes he's the greatest player of all time or at least in that moment.

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Lebron even said he was chasing a ghost so I don’t know where this change is coming from. He would be so much more liked in the public if he let the praise just come from others.

Edit: Looking at topics and watching videos, there are some things I hate with a passion. First is that “Lebron is greater because he will pass Jordan’s overall stats” argument from the die hard fans. Jordan took 2 years off in his prime and could of played much longer at an elite level before retiring and coming back again for the Wizards. Had he not done that, Lebron would have never even come remotely close to the amount of points Jordan would had have. Do people think Emmitt Smith was better than Barry Sanders as a running back with more yards? F*** no. Who would bet that most of the people saying Lebron is better never saw a full game of MJ playing?

There’s such a dumb narrative now where people try and discount Jordan’s accomplishments for having a supporting cast. Jordan built that team, that’s the point of true greatness is being the foundation and building the best team and it shouldn’t be a knock on him at all.

When all is said and done with Lebron’s career news outlets are still going to be comparing the next monster athlete more too Jordan than Lebron, mark my words.
Last edited by PowerDump on January 4th, 2019, 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The difference between Ali and LeBron being that, one was involved in an individual sport and the other in a team sport. The game 7 that LeBron is referring to, was won by the team of Cavaliers. Kyrie also did terrific work in that game. It's so arrogant to ignore that as a fact.

While every time the subject is raised, MJ mentions that our team was great. 90s Bulls won those trophies. That's how an inspiring leader should speak.£

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