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NF: Nolan Fans
Deeper and more in-depth technical discussion of the films of Christopher Nolan.

Huh...Nolan made a movie about religion...

Posts: 10231
Location: Northwest
MW715 wrote:
Crazy Eight wrote:Something like this... I won't get into the religious stuff, but by dafox's logic, than every film with a heroic protagonist and antagonist is a Christian based allegory, which isn't true in the slightest.

This would be implying that the themes of good and evil are founded soley in Christianity which is simply not true. Look at every ancient and modern religion or culture and you will find the same struggles. The idea of a struggle between good and evil has been deeply engrained into human nature since its inception regardless of whether religion is true or not and that's why it appears in all forms of man's storytelling. I also think you guys are reading a bit too deeply into this. I doubt Nolan was making some religious statement with any of his films. They're compelling stories, that's why he makes them and I think they just happen to have similarities to religion because, let's face it, most stories do.


I completely agree, which is why I said by dafox's logic and isn't true in the slightest.
Posts: 67
I'm not sure how anyone can avoid reading Inception on a religious level. The film takes Matthew 7.24 as its organizing metaphor and makes several odd choices with its narrative (such as pushing Cobb into a bathtub in the opening sequence) in order to maintain thematic consistency with the parable (limbo is destroyed *twice* in a flood of water, etc.).

The film uses questions of architecture/creation as an organizing motif and is filled with characters whose names are not only biblical, but meaningfully biblical given their role in the film (Jacob, Philip, James, Joseph..,). Nolan also offers multiple conversations where the dialogue is filled with loaded terminology ("genesis of an idea", "leap of faith", "goddamn beach") which reinforce the message of the overarching parable. And there are many scenes where the dialogue is truly bizarre under any other interpretation (see the father/son meeting in Paris, or the final temptation of Mal in Limbo).

Most importantly though, the ambiguity of the ending is only sensibly resolved through this interpretation. Following Cobb's self-sacrificial death we see his symbolic resurrection, his forgiveness of sins at immigration and then his reunion with his family in a garden "on the cliff". Since the totem has always been a symbol of faithlessness, this leads to the counter-intuitive claim that the only significance of the spinning top is that Cobb ignores it (a visual demonstration of faith). This reading makes genuinely counterintuitive claims about how to interpret the film, and yet is the most consistent with remarks Nolan later made that the most important thing about the spinning top is that Cobb ignores it.

Rather than asserting that all stories are biblical (not true at all), a critic should look for evidence that the film itself does not support this interpretation or is internally inconsistent in its use or manipulation of religious imagery.
Posts: 10231
Location: Northwest
Jacob, Philip, James, Joseph, these are some of the most common names in the world. Any Biblical correlations you try to connect simply from the names, hold no water, since they are so popular. Tell me, do the names Cobb, Eames, Arthur, Ariadne, Saito, and Mal have any Biblical significance? No, they don't, and those are the names of the actual ensemble cast.

The film uses architecture because architectural knowledge is needed to form a dream world. Obviously design experts are the most qualified to build an imaginary world. It's the only profession that would makes sense to design the dream world. Again, you are trying to pull some hidden meaning out of nothing.

Genesis isn't a reference to the Biblical chapter. It's the most appropriate word for Cobb to use in the sentence. AGAIN, pulling something from nothing. And "Goddamn beach"? :lol: I shouldn't have to explain that one...

Self sacrificial death? What the hell are you talking about? Waking up from Limbo? He has no choice but to if he wants to see his kids again and live in reality. Anyone in his position at that time would have done the exact same thing without much hesitation. Yet again, pulling something from nothing.

Faith... because having faith that he wasn't in a dream totally means that the entire film is a Christian allegory. Because, you know, Christianity is the only thing that ever requires "a leap of faith". :roll:

Nice try.
Posts: 10140
Actually there's absolute proof that Inception is a movie about religion and I got it. Here it is:

Image
Posts: 67
Any Biblical correlations you try to connect simply from the names, hold no water, since they are so popular. Tell me, do the names Cobb, Eames, Arthur, Ariadne, Saito, and Mal have any Biblical significance? No, they don't, and those are the names of the actual ensemble cast.


Why should Nolan name every single character after someone from the bible? There are plenty of other threads on this site that offer suggestions on what Nolan may have meant with specific names like Arthur, Eames and Saito. None of the suggestions I've read contract anything I'm saying.

You want the names to be meaningless but they aren't. Cobb's full name is Domingo Cobb. The children are both named after biblical apostles. Mal is malevolent: the temptress who seduces Cobb to build his home on the sands of the mortal world. Yusef quite literally holds the keys to the dream world. And Ariadne? When Cobb asks his father for help it is given (Matthew 7.7) in the form of a woman whose mythological name suggests her purpose is to guide him out of the maze that is the mortal world. This is exactly what happens and we even get it visually symbolized when Ariadne breaks the mirrors that trap Cobb in a series of infinite reflections/dreams.

The film uses architecture because architectural knowledge is needed to form a dream world. Obviously design experts are the most qualified to build an imaginary world. It's the only profession that would makes sense to design the dream world. Again, you are trying to pull some hidden meaning out of nothing.


There is no hidden meaning: it is all in plain sight. References to the parable of the wise and foolish builders bookend the film. The film starts on the beach with the false children building castles on the sand. It ends on a cliff with the real children building castles on the rock. Nolan repeatedly emphasizes the parable by linking the sand castles to the "real buildings" of limbo, a world where "you can spend a lifetime" and from which "you have to die to wake up". What is subtle about this?

I suppose it could be a coincidence that limbo is destroyed *twice* in a flood of water exactly as the biblical parable suggests. It could also be a coincidence that water is consistently associated with the dream worlds, and that it gets progressively more destructive the deeper they go. It could be a coincidence that Cobb sees Mal's face when he washes his face, or that it's a glass of water that sends Fischer to sleep on the plane. And it could be just a coincidence that Cobb fell into a bathtub. There are a lot of coincidences. A LOT.

Except they aren't coincidences. Inception does a lot of novel things, but its use of biblical allegory and water symbolism is actually quite staid. Water is a popular symbol for the subconscious in Western literature. Nolan is aware of this, which is why he starts his film with a shot of the ocean, and why the script tells us that limbo is built "on the shores of our subconscious". There is an underlying symbolic point to the omnipresence of water in the dream world. This is not the only thing the film is doing, but it is part of the language of the film and Nolan is far too consistent with it for you to plausibly claim it is accidental.

But even if you do want to insist that everything is a coincidence, you'll have to find a better excuse than the claim that "obvious design" is forcing Nolan to adopt these images. If the buildings of limbo aren't supposed to be bigger versions of the sandcastles on the beach, why do we see them crash into the ocean? A cement building falling apart like sand... really? Another equally nonsensical example is the way water crashes into Saito's complex from above when the opening dream collapses. This makes no sense, and is actually completely illogical. What is the water doing up there? Is there a giant water tank hidden somewhere above the fortress? There is no "obvious design" forcing Nolan to end limbo by destruction of water just like there is no "obvious design" forcing him to put Cobb's chair above a bathtub. The logic works the other way: the plot devices are necessary given the allegorical structure of the film. Cobb is sitting above the bathtub because Nolan needs an excuse to flood limbo with water.

Genesis isn't a reference to the Biblical chapter. It's the most appropriate word for Cobb to use in the sentence. AGAIN, pulling something from nothing. And "Goddamn beach"? :lol: I shouldn't have to explain that one...


If Eames had said "God knows I could use a drink" or "Heavens what I'd do for a beach" you'd have more of a case. But all you seem to be saying is that screenwriters don't actually think about what they write. A better comeback would be finding a case of blasphemy in the film that does NOT work with the interpretation I'm giving you. But you won't because characters rarely swear and when they do it tends to be significant and meaningful.

Self sacrificial death? What the hell are you talking about? Waking up from Limbo? He has no choice but to if he wants to see his kids again and live in reality. Anyone in his position at that time would have done the exact same thing without much hesitation. Yet again, pulling something from nothing.


The film sets up being trapped in limbo as a death sentence. So we have Cobb sacrifice himself to rescue Saito from limbo. Nothing particularly deep here although it's worth noting that Cobb's clothing and behavior is quite different in this scene from when we see him earlier. He's changed from thief to prophet.
Posts: 13096
Location: Bucharest
trevelyan wrote:...


Do you think Terminator 2: Judgment Day is a religious movie? What about One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest? How about There Will Be Blood? or even American History X?

I guarantee I could find a way to describe these movies as being far more religious than Inception... would you agree?
Posts: 67
It didn't strike me that any of the films you cite are particularly sophisticated or consistent in their symbolism, although there are clear religious allusions in some (John Connor, etc.) and faith seemed to be a fairly obvious theme in There Will Be Blood before I stopped watching out of boredom about thirty minutes in.

If you want my suggestions on recent films that are close to the caliber of Inception, I'd suggest Pan's Labyrinth, 2046 or Fight Club. If you think it's easy to pull a spurious but consistent religious interpretation of out random films why don't you try with one of those? One of the three is fairly explicitly Christian, so you might even get it right! :D
Posts: 13096
Location: Bucharest
trevelyan wrote:It didn't strike me that any of the films you cite are particularly sophisticated or consistent in their symbolism, although there are clear religious allusions in some (John Connor, etc.) and faith seemed to be a fairly obvious theme in There Will Be Blood before I stopped watching out of boredom about thirty minutes in.

If you want my suggestions on recent films that are close to the caliber of Inception, I'd suggest Pan's Labyrinth, 2046 or Fight Club. If you think it's easy to pull a spurious but consistent religious interpretation of out random films why don't you try with one of those? One of the three is fairly explicitly Christian, so you might even get it right! :D


Well from those three the only fairly explicitly Christian movie is Pan's Labyrinth and that because del Toro is a convinced Christian...
Posts: 67
And you're right! But Pan's Labyrinth isn't Christian in its message -- it's only Christian in some of its imagery. So the point of the film's religious iconography isn't to proselytize belief in God, but rather to pass moral judgment on the actions of the various characters. So the film is not simple. And knowing that del Toro is Catholic is no help in figuring out why the ending is a heaven sequence, why there is so much menstrual imagery in the film - for instance - or understanding why the girl does the right thing in eating the forbidden grape.

Ultimately, the evidence that Nolan is playing with Christian imagery is overwhelming. And what makes this interpretation convincing is the consistency and purpose of the myriad and repeated references. Reading limbo as analogous to the mortal world provides coherence and structure to the film. And most importantly, it leads naturally to a counterintuitive explanation of the ending that mirrors what Nolan himself has said about the film. So bad news for anyone who thinks the ending is a dream, but good news for film buffs.
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Location: Florida
Cobb's full name is Domingo Cobb.


His name is Dominick. You can see it on the plane ticket.
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