When you see those scenes in the movie, not for a moment is there a real threat of her going evil. That dimension is immaterial to her character and arc in the movie. Her arc is defined by trying to redeem Ben and save The Resistance.
"No threat for her going evil" is what I can't agree with. She walks on the edge of dark and light during the second act same as Ren, and same as Luke at the end of Empire or Return despite giving no indication of giving up to Vader or Sidious' temptations. Because they are all vulnerable due to inner conflicts with fear and anger. They manage to overcome it eventually, and succeed where Anakin or Ben couldn't, but the fight was there.
With Rey it's her fear of loneliness that tempts her towards the dark side. Not having a family or anyone who ever cared for her, a sense of being lost and left out, the burning desire to find out the answer is what drives her into the mirror cave despite Luke's warning and the truth of it is what Ren is wisely using to pull her towards his side.
Johnson makes it very clear in Jedi's almost nightmarish second act that just as Ren feels a certain gravitation to go back to light side, Rey is also dealing with unsettling feelings of her own, for they are the two sides of the same coin in the end. And when they both finally reject the urge, it tears their connection to each other from inside, symbolically shown as the Skywalker lightsabre that shatters in half.
Last edited by Master Virgo on August 25th, 2019, 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"No threat for her going evil" is what I can't agree with. She walks on the edge of dark and light during the second act same as Ren, and same as Luke at the end of Empire or Return despite giving no indication of giving up to Vader or Sidious' temptations. Because they are all vulnerable due to inner conflicts with fear and anger. They manage to overcome it eventually, and succeed where Anakin or Ben couldn't, but the fight was there.
With Rey it's her fear of loneliness that tempts her towards the dark side. Not having a family or anyone who ever cared for her, a sense of being lost and left out, the burning desire to find out the answer is what drives her into the mirror cave despite Luke's warning and the truth of it is what Ren is wisely using to pull her towards his side.
Johnson makes it very clear in Jedi's almost nightmarish second act that just as Ren feels a certain gravitation to go back to light side, Rey is also dealing with unsettling feelings of her own, for they are the two sides of the same coin in the end. And when they both finally reject the urge, it tears their connection to each other from inside, symbolically shown as the Skywalker lightsabre that shatters in half.
man we just read all this fundamentally differently. each their own i guess, but i've always thought if it was Rian's intention it wasn't clear to the point i've assumed it was not his intention. We never see any textual support of Rey ever being tempted or "using" the dark side. I saw the dark side trying to manipulate her (the cave, pushing her towards Snoke/Ren) but it failing every time. I've always thought the point was specifically that Rey was "above" temptation to the darkside due to her fundamental moral core. In fact, Armand and I have talked about this on NF multiple times and he more or less agrees with me here.
For comparison, Luke opens ROTJ talking about not "underestimating his power" and threatens to use his force powers to "Destroy" Jabba IE the rhetoric of Sith and the opposite of what Yoda taught him. Later, he clearly submits to anger when battling Vader. Rey has nothing like that. Up to the very end she's bristling with (naive) hope Ben will turn, that Snoke is wrong and evil, and as soon as Ben doesn't turn to the light she rejects him. Her POV not only never changes, we never have evidence it ever could have. The entire time she's trying to get Ben to turn towards her and when that doesn't happen, bam, fuck you kylo ren, etc.
What would JJ do without having Vader to defend him at every turn?
I know you're joking but I'm not really. I'm just already fatigued with people going out of their way to be negative about any conceivable thing before seeing almost anything of the final product. I said the same thing about Ren's mask and in the wandavision thread just now. cynicism is fucking boring.
Yeah, I’m just fucking around. I can empathize with what you’re saying in general, I’m fatigued by a lot, cynicism included. Just the way people respond to certain things in art/entertainment this day and age. It can be a bummer.
Rey falls prey to anger when she attacks Luke, she falls prey to fear when she directly contacts Ren and risks giving up the location of Luke to the First Order, she is very clearly in a vulnerable position as a direct result of Luke turning up to be a disappointment and furthering the void that she was hoping he would fill for her as a mentor and a parent figure.
Snoke is not the dark side, anger, fear and hatred are its real elements. Which is why Ren killing Snoke, or Anakin killing Dooku was never a freeing act for any of them. A Sith lord works as a catalyst for the dark side, hence Sidious enjoying Luke's hatred and anger towards him, because that's really what the point is.
Rey falls prey to anger when she attacks Luke, she falls prey to fear when she directly contacts Ren and risks giving up the location of Luke to the First Order, she is very clearly in a vulnerable position as a direct result of Luke turning up to be a disappointment and furthering the void that she was hoping he would fill for her as a mentor and a parent figure.
Snoke is not the dark side, anger, fear and hatred are its real elements. Which is why Ren killing Snoke, or Anakin killing Dooku was never a freeing act for any of them. A Sith lord works as a catalyst for the dark side, hence Sidious enjoying Luke's hatred and anger towards him, because that's really what the point is.
I guess I saw Rey losing her temper at Luke as something obviously emotionally justified, right?
she attacks Luke since Luke as been lying to her this entire time and kinda/sorta created kylo ren and played a major role in dooming the whole galaxy. Anakin's hatred of the sand people is justified too, but his reaction is obviously crazy. But if you found out your 'teacher' helped create the anti-christ you'd be pretty pissed too. I'll grant you it's an example of showing she can be quick to temper which is dangerous for a force user, but not a slam-dunk example. There's also when she yells at the guard in the throne room battle, but I'm not sure we're supposed to go "dark side!" there either.
the other examples you give aren't red flags of the dark side imo. you say "vulnerable" but I don't see how these instances ever threaten her moral or philosophical POV. those specific elements are never questioned.
You have to admit that it's a little bit too much. Attacking an old depressed man with no powers, first hitting him in the head from behind, without having heard his side of the story or knowing for sure whether or not Ren is being fully truthful. And then she threatens him with a lightsabre. Like what, are you going to kill or torture him now, because of a crime he never even committed?
I'm not saying it wasn't an overreaction, it obviously was, and a major aspect of her character is she's quick to fight (like with Snoke). However, Luke is one of the greatest warriors of her generation and last, and the dude pole vaults spear fishing.
and PS, immediately prior to Rey attacking him, Luke literally exploded her hut with the force. This guy wasn't "without force powers." He just detonated a fucking house with the force lol.
All I'm saying is that I wouldn't use this as an example to support her going to the dark side when the entire time she keeps repeating how she wants to save the galaxy by redeeming ben, instantly attacks snoke, instantly tries to redeem ben, and when he won't turn she instantly rejects him. The whole time her moral and behavioral outlook doesn't waver.
again, i thought the whole point of TLJ for Rey is unphased by the dark side. am I alone here?
Well, no wonder you people thought Rey wasn't very interesting in The Last Jedi. I mean it's kind of a key point in the film, how Rey and Ren start getting closer to each other as well as to the other side of the force, due to the bridge that Snoke creates between them, but ultimately break free at the beginning of the third act.
