Batmannerism wrote:I feel a bit sorry for idealist, because you're denying yourself enjoyment of a truly epic film

I kind of agree with the ending needing perhaps a little more ambiguity in the cafe scene
(maybe they could have cut it quicker, don't know). Personally, I still feel it works.

As for the Robin thing, I'm with Nolan on that one. You couldn't bring the whole Boy wonder thing with the
red costume/tights into the film without wrecking it. But what is Robin's role. Batman's sidekick, yes, but
he also humanizes and moderates Batman's extremity a bit, he helps Batman out.
This is exactly what Blake does throughout the film, both with moral support and acutal assistance in the final
battle, so really he did exactly what Robin does, and I think the nod from Nolan (the "real name" bit) worked.
I reckon the rising monolith/fade to black was absolutely perfect though, terrific final shot !

Regardless of that, most of you folk seem to get that the film perhaps isn't perfect and could never satisfy everybody,
however, it is still a monumental triumph and a worthy conclusion (I feel it's perfect in that respect).

Hope you all enjoy it as much as I did.

Sometimes, people deserve to have their faith rewarded - Batman.

Obvious troll is obvious

You know what I noticed? Nobody panics when things go according to plan. If tomorrow I comment who the villian in “Savage” is, or reveal the entire ending of The Amazing Spider-Man Nobody panics, because it’s all part of the plan.
But if I reveal one, little old spoiler from TDKR, well then everybody LOSES THEIR MIND!

BlairCo wrote:Also, which track plays at the end?

In terms of credits I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure the final scene is

Batmannerism wrote:I feel a bit sorry for idealist, because you're denying yourself enjoyment of a truly epic film

I kind of agree with the ending needing perhaps a little more ambiguity in the cafe scene
(maybe they could have cut it quicker, don't know). Personally, I still feel it works.

As for the Robin thing, I'm with Nolan on that one. You couldn't bring the whole Boy wonder thing with the
red costume/tights into the film without wrecking it. But what is Robin's role. Batman's sidekick, yes, but
he also humanizes and moderates Batman's extremity a bit, he helps Batman out.
This is exactly what Blake does throughout the film, both with moral support and acutal assistance in the final
battle, so really he did exactly what Robin does, and I think the nod from Nolan (the "real name" bit) worked.
I reckon the rising monolith/fade to black was absolutely perfect though, terrific final shot !

Regardless of that, most of you folk seem to get that the film perhaps isn't perfect and could never satisfy everybody,
however, it is still a monumental triumph and a worthy conclusion (I feel it's perfect in that respect).

Hope you all enjoy it as much as I did.

SilverHeart wrote:

Except for the biggest, and in my opinion, most important aspect of Robin, which is the father/son relationship.

This basically sums it up:

http://youtu.be/d3UitpDUrIQ?t=2m59s

No, that's there.

ArmandFancypants wrote:

SilverHeart wrote:

Except for the biggest, and in my opinion, most important aspect of Robin, which is the father/son relationship.

This basically sums it up:

http://youtu.be/d3UitpDUrIQ?t=2m59s

No, that's there.

Gordon and Bruce essentially serve as Blake's duelling influential father figures in the way that Thomas Wayne and Ra's were to Bruce. Complete with Blake's growing disillusionment in one of them.

That feels like a bit of a stretch IMO.

darthnazgul wrote:

ArmandFancypants wrote:
No, that's there.

Gordon and Bruce essentially serve as Blake's duelling influential father figures in the way that Thomas Wayne and Ra's were to Bruce. Complete with Blake's growing disillusionment in one of them.

That feels like a bit of a stretch IMO.

Didn't feel that way with them but it's probably because Blake isn't the protagonist. I could feel the father figure in Ra's with Bruce but not with Gordon/Bruce and Blake. Maybe it's the way the characters worked off each other, I dunno.

Michael Caine delivers a stirring performance.The background score is a little loud but it suits well with Though admitting I saw it in the bootleg video going around on YT. But still a nice scene

As posted elsewhere: A full analysis of the ending's purpose:

When the film begins, Bruce Wayne is dead for all intents and purposes, his body just hasn't gotten the message yet (Physical vs. the spirit was a theme in the film). He is TRAPPED, wounded by the perversion of the Batman, The Joker has destroyed him deep down. Alfred knows that this is how Bruce dies, he's dead inside and clearly suffering. When Bruce bites at the concept of going back out in the field, despite a noticeable limp, Alfred knows what it is, it's suicide, the Batman equivalent of suicide by cop. It is here that Alfred breaks down and explains he knows onlt death waits for Bruce in Gotham, this is why his image of seeing Bruce in Paris ends up not being him at this point. Because Bruce is dead, his spirit died along with Harvey.

*Note: I do not mean spirit spiritually in any way, I'm not trying to take this to a religious place, I just mean his inner self.

It should be noted that, starting with the second to last scene in Begins with Katie Holmes atop the Wayne Manor rubble, the series has been clear that Bruce deep down is Batman, and it's Bruce Wayne as everyone else sees him that really is the alter ego. Again, Bruce deep down is Batman, this is the key to the character throughout and the key to the ending.

Now fast forward to the pit, where we directly (too directly IMO) deal with the concept that Bruce's being dead inside is killing Batman via a conversation with the doctor dude. He tells Bruce that fear is necessary, will to live drives strength, there's no greater motivator then not wanting to die. In response, Bruce does the jump without the rope, making it because he had to. The message: the physical is overrated and not the source of Batman's strength. It is the spirit, the life that yearns to survive and succeed in it's mission, that pushes Bruce and thus Batman. When Bruce climbs out of the pit, he is reborn, he's for all intents and purposes got his swagger back.

Now to the Selina scene. She asks Bruce to come away with her, saying that he doesn't owe this city anymore. He doesn't agree, he's not free until his mission is over. As of now, if Bruce were to perish, so would Gotham, as long as that's the case, his spirit will continued to be trapped. Key, it's SELINA proposing going away together, this is important, it creates leaving with Selina, who's stated goal is to wipe the slate clean as the image of Bruce being free of the devotion he feels to Gotham.

Now the end. Bruce, after Robin and Selina both prove to help save the day following batman's lead, decides to sacrifice himself to save the city. He is alive, batman is doing exactly what it's meant to do, directly inspiring people to act, people who are capable of taking his place. Taking the wrap for Harvey killed him inside, everything he is and means to be was perverted by a necessary lie. Now, through the events of this film, Bruce is not only alive, he has succeeded, he has inspired someone who can take his place and thus he is allowed finality. His spirit, which he has made clear feels obligated entirely to Gotham, is now free, essentially because the presence of Robin when it comes down to it. It is with this that he knows his journey has come to an end, he sees exactly how his story ends, he sacrifices himself to save the city, becoming a martyr symbol and fulfilling his destiny to defeat The League of Shadows by inspiring people to act. His father's death, remember, inspired the city and defeated Ra's financially before BB. This is Bruce's destiny, this is the completion of his mission to fulfill his father's goals in a more theatrical, emphatic fashion. When Bruce's father died, Gotham lost it's leader, leaving Bruce feeling like his soul, his spirit, is permanently devoted to filling his father's shoes. He is finally free.

Now, when he dies, Alfred is heartbroken, he feels like he's failed Bruce. Following this scene however comes the montage of positivity, the city is idolizing him and rebuilding inspired by him, a statue of batman is revealed. And, finally, a successor who followed Bruce has been found. It is now that Afred finally understands, or comes to terms with that Bruce was Batman, that's who he was, that's what his fate was. His life, his soul, it all was symbolized by Batman, Bruce Wayne the man meant nothing to him, living as Bruce Wayne playboy was internal death to him, But the Batman's triumph and mythical stature means Bruce is alive, because Bruce deep down was Batman, his soul was Batman. Alfred finally understands that there is no seperating the two. The successful creation and stability of the Batman symbol, and it's continuing beyond Bruce himself, Is Bruce's version of retiring in Europe with a girl. That's the fate that has represented freedom to him since his parents were taken, and his true love as well. He couldn't rest until Gotham was fixed, so he could never go away to Europe.

Thus, final shot was an appreciation of Bruce being alive metaphorically, via the statue, the rebuilt light, and of course Robin. It didn't mean he survived and escaped to Europe, where he could literally live FREE. It meant that Alfred understands, and thus we can understand, that his spirit is now FREE, Alfred can smile now knowing he did well by Bruce, that was always what the dream was about.

Selina's inclusion is a bit confusing admittedly, but it is about her proposal. It's simply a matter of, at that moment, Selina defines Bruce being free of his obligation to Gotham by going away with her. That's why she's in the final shot.

This is the end that perfectly wraps up the series, Bruce was always headed for a fate of sacrifice as a man for the sake of Batman. He believes, naively, in BB, that Batman can be a 5 year plan or whatever. But it's made clear, and emphasized with the failure of Dent, that that was not realistic. He was destined to be Batman until he dies, and the only thing that could replace Batman's role is, well, Batman. The end of Bruce the man was always meant to be one with the successful mythification of The Batman. This has long been Bruce's destiny, and this was the point of the final shot.

So let's all please shut up about whether or not the auto pilot was fixed, the ending was much bigger, more final, and more meaningful then that. This is Nolan, after-all.

dustbust5 wrote:As posted elsewhere: A full analysis of the ending's purpose:

When the film begins, Bruce Wayne is dead for all intents and purposes, his body just hasn't gotten the message yet (Physical vs. the spirit was a theme in the film). He is TRAPPED, wounded by the perversion of the Batman, The Joker has destroyed him deep down. Alfred knows that this is how Bruce dies, he's dead inside and clearly suffering. When Bruce bites at the concept of going back out in the field, despite a noticeable limp, Alfred knows what it is, it's suicide, the Batman equivalent of suicide by cop. It is here that Alfred breaks down and explains he knows onlt death waits for Bruce in Gotham, this is why his image of seeing Bruce in Paris ends up not being him at this point. Because Bruce is dead, his spirit died along with Harvey.

*Note: I do not mean spirit spiritually in any way, I'm not trying to take this to a religious place, I just mean his inner self.

It should be noted that, starting with the second to last scene in Begins with Katie Holmes atop the Wayne Manor rubble, the series has been clear that Bruce deep down is Batman, and it's Bruce Wayne as everyone else sees him that really is the alter ego. Again, Bruce deep down is Batman, this is the key to the character throughout and the key to the ending.

Now fast forward to the pit, where we directly (too directly IMO) deal with the concept that Bruce's being dead inside is killing Batman via a conversation with the doctor dude. He tells Bruce that fear is necessary, will to live drives strength, there's no greater motivator then not wanting to die. In response, Bruce does the jump without the rope, making it because he had to. The message: the physical is overrated and not the source of Batman's strength. It is the spirit, the life that yearns to survive and succeed in it's mission, that pushes Bruce and thus Batman. When Bruce climbs out of the pit, he is reborn, he's for all intents and purposes got his swagger back.

Now to the Selina scene. She asks Bruce to come away with her, saying that he doesn't owe this city anymore. He doesn't agree, he's not free until his mission is over. As of now, if Bruce were to perish, so would Gotham, as long as that's the case, his spirit will continued to be trapped. Key, it's SELINA proposing going away together, this is important, it creates leaving with Selina, who's stated goal is to wipe the slate clean as the image of Bruce being free of the devotion he feels to Gotham.

Now the end. Bruce, after Robin and Selina both prove to help save the day following batman's lead, decides to sacrifice himself to save the city. He is alive, batman is doing exactly what it's meant to do, directly inspiring people to act, people who are capable of taking his place. Taking the wrap for Harvey killed him inside, everything he is and means to be was perverted by a necessary lie. Now, through the events of this film, Bruce is not only alive, he has succeeded, he has inspired someone who can take his place and thus he is allowed finality. His spirit, which he has made clear feels obligated entirely to Gotham, is now free, essentially because the presence of Robin when it comes down to it. It is with this that he knows his journey has come to an end, he sees exactly how his story ends, he sacrifices himself to save the city, becoming a martyr symbol and fulfilling his destiny to defeat The League of Shadows by inspiring people to act. His father's death, remember, inspired the city and defeated Ra's financially before BB. This is Bruce's destiny, this is the completion of his mission to fulfill his father's goals in a more theatrical, emphatic fashion. When Bruce's father died, Gotham lost it's leader, leaving Bruce feeling like his soul, his spirit, is permanently devoted to filling his father's shoes. He is finally free.

Now, when he dies, Alfred is heartbroken, he feels like he's failed Bruce. Following this scene however comes the montage of positivity, the city is idolizing him and rebuilding inspired by him, a statue of batman is revealed. And, finally, a successor who followed Bruce has been found. It is now that Afred finally understands, or comes to terms with that Bruce was Batman, that's who he was, that's what his fate was. His life, his soul, it all was symbolized by Batman, Bruce Wayne the man meant nothing to him, living as Bruce Wayne playboy was internal death to him, But the Batman's triumph and mythical stature means Bruce is alive, because Bruce deep down was Batman, his soul was Batman. Alfred finally understands that there is no seperating the two. The successful creation and stability of the Batman symbol, and it's continuing beyond Bruce himself, Is Bruce's version of retiring in Europe with a girl. That's the fate that has represented freedom to him since his parents were taken, and his true love as well. He couldn't rest until Gotham was fixed, so he could never go away to Europe.

Thus, final shot was an appreciation of Bruce being alive metaphorically, via the statue, the rebuilt light, and of course Robin. It didn't mean he survived and escaped to Europe, where he could literally live FREE. It meant that Alfred understands, and thus we can understand, that his spirit is now FREE, Alfred can smile now knowing he did well by Bruce, that was always what the dream was about.

Selina's inclusion is a bit confusing admittedly, but it is about her proposal. It's simply a matter of, at that moment, Selina defines Bruce being free of his obligation to Gotham by going away with her. That's why she's in the final shot.

This is the end that perfectly wraps up the series, Bruce was always headed for a fate of sacrifice as a man for the sake of Batman. He believes, naively, in BB, that Batman can be a 5 year plan or whatever. But it's made clear, and emphasized with the failure of Dent, that that was not realistic. He was destined to be Batman until he dies, and the only thing that could replace Batman's role is, well, Batman. The end of Bruce the man was always meant to be one with the successful mythification of The Batman. This has long been Bruce's destiny, and this was the point of the final shot.

So let's all please shut up about whether or not the auto pilot was fixed, the ending was much bigger, more final, and more meaningful then that. This is Nolan, after-all.

Looks good but it's a bit contrived don't you think? I mean, no everyone will think so and the film doesn't make this clear.