idealist wrote:My guess is that studio execs forced Nolan to compromise on a happy ending and leaving the door open for a continuation or offshoot of the story with John Blake as the new Batman!
The ending of this film has completely undermined and cheapened the entire trilogy!
"It doesn't matter how you get knocked down in life because that's going to happen. All that matters is you gotta get up."
idealist wrote:My guess is that studio execs forced Nolan to compromise on a happy ending and leaving the door open for a continuation or offshoot of the story with John Blake as the new Batman!
The ending of this film has completely undermined and cheapened the entire trilogy!
The ending works. It makes sense. Stop whining because you didn't get exactly what you wanted. THe studio lets Nolan do whatever he wants, which is why they let him make a 2 hour and 45 minute batman movie. Obviously the Nolan bros disagree with you. They understand their movies better than you do. Bruce dying would not have been a satisfying ending for most of us. Get over it,
idealist wrote:Also the cafe scene of Bruce and Selina goes against everything these films stand for because shouldn't Selina be serving a lenghty prison sentence at the end of the film for all the jewellery she has stolen? Or does Bruce turn a blind eye to the crimes of his love interest?
I could accept the cafe scene ending more if it was just a glimpse of Bruce (or someone who looked like him) sitting outside the cafe on his own.
More proof that you just don't get it. Him being by himself would mean that he doesn't progress or grow as a character at all. He goes from a loner in Gotham. To a loner in France. The actual ending shows growth and progress. He's in a relationship now, with someone who understands him better than anyone else can. Someone just as broken as him.
idealist wrote:My guess is that studio execs forced Nolan to compromise on a happy ending and leaving the door open for a continuation or offshoot of the story with John Blake as the new Batman!
The ending of this film has completely undermined and cheapened the entire trilogy!
How about you seriously just stop talking until you actually...you know...see the damn film. God this annoying. Thank you.
Nolan has made a dark and serious trilogy he should at least have the guts to end the trilogy on a dark and serious note instead of selling out to some souless warner bro execs who insist upon a false and safe "happy ending" with no ambiguity and just some poorly thought out suggestion that John Blake will become the new Batman or Robin. Just a really bad all round ending which takes everything out of the trilogy and leaves it hollow and meaingless.
I don't buy this whole "Bruce has found redemption" and "Bruce has to give up being Batman so he can grow and move on in his life" it just sounds like your trying to come up with excuses for a very lightweight ending that completely robs the trilogy of the gravitas that the ending deserves which can only be achieved through Bruce sacrificing his life for Gotham or at the very least making the fate of Bruce very ambiguous. Bruce can only find redemption from Batman through his own self sacrifice which is why him dying is the only justifiable and worthy ending to the trilogy.
Who is to blame for the weak and insipid ending of this film I'm more inclined to rest the blame at the hands of the studio execs who forced this safe and false ending on the film and I don't for one second believe that Nolan has the level of creative freedom that most people here say that he does but if he and the writers are entirely responsible for the ending then what they have given us is safe, reassuring and ulimately false and insincere ending that makes a mockery of the previous films!
Last edited by idealist on July 18th, 2012, 2:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Nolan has always said that Bruce Wayne is at a point where he is still a child inside. A child who needs to release his rage. Batman allowed him to release that rage, and also made Bruce feel as if he was doing something good for the city, like his parents (and he was doing good).
To have killed Bruce off would have meant that he never crossed that threshold and he would never move on. So where's the character progression there? There wouldn't be much, over the course of the trilogy, that would have change.
In Batman Begins, he wanted to fight crime with the persona of Batman. In TDK, he wanted to hang up the cowl, but realised over time (leading straight into TDKR) that he needs Batman to fight crime. But that's what he wants. He wants Gotham to need Batman so that he can don the cowl again, because in fact he is the one who needs Batman. To have died as Batman would have meant no character progression from that point on. For Bruce to hang up the cowl or pass it on to Blake (however you wish to interpret the actual definitive final scene) is the ultimate sign that he has finally matured to the point where he has moved on. From the very beginning, Bruce has wanted to live the life he would have, had he not become an orphan at the hands of a man with a gun. He has finally achieved that goal. Isn't that what we should want for him? To get what he has wanted from the very beginning, and suffered so much as a result of this goal?
As for the final scene with Blake entering the cave. I see it as this - he remembered (during his hallucination in the prison) what Ra's Al Ghul said at the beginning of this journey, and what ultimately culminated in the plot to destroy Gotham - Ra's is a legend, and as a result, his work is carried on after his death by those who followed the same ideology. Similarly, Batman's legacy needs to be continued (to maintain the incorruptible symbol) well after the mortal has moved on. Bruce has moved on and someone needs to carry on the legacy. What better way that to pass it on to a man who had almost the same experiences (without the wealth) and holds the same world views, and is as selfless as Blake?
At the end of the day, this ending works brilliantly to end the trilogy. It may not sound so great by itself, but in the grand scheme of the story, it fulfills the overarching thematic issues held - the issue of legacy being the most important one for a symbol like Batman.
idealist wrote:Nolan has made a dark and serious trilogy he should at least have the guts to end the trilogy on a dark and serious note instead of selling out to some souless warner bro execs who insist upon a false and safe "happy ending" with no ambiguity and just some poorly thought out suggestion that John Blake will become the new Batman or Robin. Just a really bad all round ending which takes everything out of the trilogy and leaves it hollow and meaingless.
I don't buy this whole "Bruce has found redemption" and "Bruce has to give up being Batman so he can grow and move on in his life" it just sounds like your trying to come up with excuses for a very lightweight ending that completely robs the trilogy of the gravitas that the ending deserves which can only be achieved through Bruce sacrificing his life for Gotham or at the very least making the fate of Bruce very ambiguous. Bruce can only find redemption from Batman through his own self sacrifice which is why him dying is the only justifiable and worthy ending to the trilogy.
Who is to blame for the weak and insipid ending of this film I'm more inclined to rest the blame at the hands of the studio execs who forced this safe and false ending on the film and I don't for one second believe that Nolan has the level of creative freedom that most people here say that he does but if he and the writers are entirely responsible for the ending then what they have given us is safe, reassuring and ulimately false and insincere ending and makes a mockery of the previous films!
Your opinion is completely invalid and your just blowing smoke out of your ass until you see the film...seriously. Go watch the movie, be disappointed, then come back. Talking about a film you haven't even seen is stupid.
Last edited by Cilogy on July 18th, 2012, 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:Spoilers tagged.
Talia Al Ghul arrested, Bane deceased, and Bruce Wayne retires. Until... and Batman's identity was revealed earlier in the story, so he retires. Until:
I enjoyed the ending but it does have one of my biggest gripes of the film.
It should have been more ambiguous, cut out the shot of Bruce, leave that part on Alfred smiling. Also trim the auto-pilot bit and remove the reveal of Blake's full name (wouldn't mind the woman still bringing the subject up, just leave out Robin and it'd be fine).
And although I can't really give a detailed opinion yet I'll say this. It was flawed, but emotional and satisfying.
