This confirms that it was not Alfred's fantasy.

Are you watching closely?

riddick-danish wrote:This confirms that it was not Alfred's fantasy.

Are you watching closely?

Look at bale's forhead, there is a scar? Why would Alfred dream a scar made by Bane's beating? He didnt see it, right?
Now you will say, how is that a scar made by Bane's beating? Watch 2 scenes:
1. Bane breaking Batman's mask, its exactly the same place.
2. Bruce and Bane's prison conversation, blood is coming from the same spot.

/discussion.

ah yes the old scar discussion. i agree riddick that at one point was the most concrete evidence of all time, until i rewatched it wihen bruce imagines seeing ras in his dreams he has his scar then to. why would he have that scar in his own dream? nolan is very meticilous, then we get the there are many forms of immortality speech from ras which is why i think the scar is irelevant at the end. if he had it in a dream in the pit, then it kind of loses its power of oh its real.

the crimson elephant wrote:yes, it has to be. and it breaks my heart that he killed my favorite hero.

I like you also believed that Bruce died so I posted a topic on the IMDB board asking them to convince me otherwise.
I received a lot of responses, some hostile some well thought-out.
Among the thought-out responses were some ambiguous evidences but it finally came down to two things:

1. You probably might have heard this but in the final scene with Alfred, Bruce has the scar which he received from Bane.
There is no way Alfred would have hallucinated that scar.

2. If the final scene was Alfred's fantasy, that means Nolan never gave Selina her own epilogue/conclusion and she is very much a main character.
Now, it might be a fault on Nolan's part but dare I say that and I might have been shredded to pieces.
Besides, I don't Nolan is that careless.

So as much as I'd want Bruce to be die, he didn't.
Nolan probably cheated in some of those final scenes but it was for dramatic effect and it paid-off.

If Alfred seeing Bruce is a hallucination then the movie, and consequently the trilogy loses all its dramatic heft. Nolan bet it all on this scene.



There's just no way that it's fake. I'm not sure why this is even a point being argued. If we're going to say that the final scene is a dream or hallucination, then the whole trilogy is up for grabs as a dream or hallucination.

The whole trilogy is a hallucination playing out in young Bruce Wayne's mind after being accidentally shot by Joe Chill, after his Dad tried to wrestle the gun away from Chill when he tried to mug his family.

nolan never gives his movies happy endings, and its not him to do it with bruce. but he sure as hell deserved it. its just hard for me to accept that the end is real when like all of his movies are ambigious, i mean he throws some killer mind bender movies. but if it is ever confirmed to be real then that was the best damn ending ive ever seen. i mean it was like nothing ive ever seen before.

the crimson elephant wrote:nolan never gives his movies happy endings, and its not him to do it with bruce. but he sure as hell deserved it. its just hard for me to accept that the end is real when like all of his movies are ambigious, i mean he throws some killer mind bender movies. but if it is ever confirmed to be real then that was the best damn ending ive ever seen. i mean it was like nothing ive ever seen before.

None of the endings to his movies (minus Inception) are ambiguous when it comes to actual content, most are just ambiguous emotionally, in that they force the viewer to decide if the ending is good, bad, or in a sort of gray area. Inception, then is the only Nolan movie that has a concrete emotional ending---it doesn't matter if Cobb is in limbo, he is happy that he has his children. But I digress.

I enjoy the fact that you're voicing your opinion well, but again, I don't see how the TDKR ending is anything but straightforward in regards to content. It's very ambiguous emotionally. Bruce is "dead", in hiding with a emotionally damaged woman. Bruce potentially never killed the demon that made him Batman. He never brought his parents back. He just got out of the game. That's not exactly happy, if you ask me. But I do believe 100% that he's alive.