TDKR's dubbing

[SomeFrenchToast]

This should've been Bane's voice:

I find it too overmade, and generic, like the kind of voice anyone could do with a simple software.

Jazzpha, the wreckage line in French was translated into "Il faut qu'ils trouvent l'un de nous dans les débris, camarade !", camarade being the translation of brother here. The literal translation of the word is comrade, or friend, but it does work as an equivalent of brother in a sectarian way. It could have been translated into "frère" as well, that wouldn't have changed the meaning of the sentence in this context. It was all about the translator's choice.

[Jazzpha]

Jazzpha, the wreckage line in French was translated into "Il faut qu'ils trouvent l'un de nous dans les débris, camarade !", camarade being the translation of brother here. The literal translation of the word is comrade, or friend, but it does work as an equivalent of brother in a sectarian way. It could have been translated into "frère" as well, that wouldn't have changed the meaning of the sentence in this context. It was all about the translator's choice.

Thanks! I hadn't thought about the 'comrade' angle as a possibility-- stuff like that is why I love translation so much. Also interesting is that it, too, carries sectarian undertones in the right context.

Cool stuff! Thanks again, and as soon as I can get my hands on the Italian dub in a few weeks, I'll see how they handle it. I'm really looking forward to their take on the Blackgate Speech.

[SomeFrenchToast]

The Blackgate speech was very well translated into French. It's pretty much literal to the original version, except for the "Step forward those who would serve" line which isn't really possible to translate literaly. It was translated as a question: "Qui se porte volontaire ?" which means "Who is ready to volunteer?" and the "for" from "For an army will be raised" has been removed to simply keep "An army will be raised".

There are a few differences like this throughout the movie. The other noticeable one, when you know both versions, is when Bane says: "Your spirit... or your body?". "Your spirit" was translated by "ta volonté", volonté being the french for will. I do like this translation as it kind of brings a full circle to "the will to act" throughout the saga.

[Lynn]

Great thread, SomeFrenchToast!

First of all, let me be envious of the wonderful title you got in France. "L'ascension du Chevalier Noir" sounds simply EPIC. Maybe I like it even better than the original title. And French definitely seems to suit Bane's speeches, maybe because of the whole "revolutionary" thing, lol.
I can't judge the dubbing itself (I still haven't seen the film, so I can't watch the Bane video you linked to) but, for example, I really like the word choice in the quote in your signature. I've been reading it aloud and it just sounds...good. I don't know.

There's the trailer in Italian. I'm trying to find some proper scenes, but no luck so far.

As with most Italian dubbing efforts, some parts are hits (Catwoman, Bruce, the pair of politicians at the beginning) and some are total misses (they didn't even sound like they were trying with Alfred, and especially not with Bane).

Alfred not being great is disappointing, but Bane sounding like he isn't even wearing a mask (during one of his most heavily-modulated lines, no less) is downright criminal.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaO9KAIEDdg

That's the final trailer (which I actually had never seen before now), which gives a much better idea of the voices. And although Alfred does sound better in the one line he has, Bane is still hard to draw a bead on.

The search continues, and now that I know what the title is in Italian, "Il Cavaliere Oscuro - Il Ritorno", for those who were curious, hopefully I'll have some more luck.

Jazzpha, are you from Italy, too?
And yeah, Italian dubbing is really a thing of joys and sorrows.

I wasn't that impressed with the trailers either, but they were dubbed very hastily because WB Italy wanted to release them as soon as possible after the original ones appeared on the web, so that's probably the reason for some of the main problems. The total lack of effects in Bane's voice surely depends on that, and I hope the same goes for Alfred's dubber's less than stellar performance. I loved Alfred in BB and TDK, it would be disappointing to have a bad dubbing for him in the final movie.

By the way, I'm incredibly sad about Fox' dubber having to be replaced because of health problems. His voice is inseparable from Morgan Freeman to me. It will be odd to hear him with another voice. And even letting the TDKR dubbing aside, I really hope he gets better soon.

Personally, I never liked the Italian Bruce, so I don't really expect to like him in TDKR, and considering the amount of emotional scenes he will have, I'm a bit afraid. Oh well, I hope he'll manage to surprise me.
I like Selina's voice.
And I'm soooo curious to hear Blake.

Anyway, nothing can redeem the horrible title we got. It's cheesy, and it completely misses the meaning of the original title. It's true that the English "RISE" has an incredibly multilayered meaning for which I doubt there's a perfectly analogous word in Italian, but any solution would have been better than just giving up and making up a totally different title that makes the film sound like a campy, "B-movie" version of The Dark Knight Returns.
I, for one, would have been happy with something like "L'Ascesa del Cavaliere Oscuro". Maybe the religious connotation of the English "Rise" and the French "Ascension" goes a bit lost (we have the very specific words "Resurrezione/Ascensione" for that) but still it preserves most of the original meaning.

Can't wait to see the film tomorrow!

[SomeFrenchToast]

Hehe, thanks.

Actually, despite the French title, the movie came out under its English title in France. I think the French title was only used in Canada. And well, the quote in my signature is one of my most favorite quotes by the French Bane. It really sounds nasty. XD

As for the trailers, you exactly sum up the problem with their dubbing: they're always quickly dubbed to be released as soon as possible, which gives them a bad quality. Gladly, this isn't like this for the final dubbing, but people tend not to understand and immediately say, "Oh, the dubbing is going to be shit".

But ah well, we'll see for the Italian dubbing. You might be nicely surprised, just like me with the French one.

[Lynn]

Lucky Canadians.

And yeah, there's often a huge leap in quality between the trailers and the actual film. Sometimes the dubbers in the trailer are not even the same in the film. So yeah, thankfully we can't always judge this kind of thing from trailers.

But ah well, we'll see for the Italian dubbing. You might be nicely surprised, just like me with the French one.

.... I hope so! In any case, I'll definitely be posting my impressions here!

[didich]

This is the trailer in European Spanish. Bane's voice is a little different from the final version, but similar enough for you to get an idea:

[Jazzpha]

Great thread, SomeFrenchToast!



Jazzpha, are you from Italy, too?
And yeah, Italian dubbing is really a thing of joys and sorrows.

I wasn't that impressed with the trailers either, but they were dubbed very hastily because WB Italy wanted to release them as soon as possible after the original ones appeared on the web, so that's probably the reason for some of the main problems. The total lack of effects in Bane's voice surely depends on that, and I hope the same goes for Alfred's dubber's less than stellar performance. I loved Alfred in BB and TDK, it would be disappointing to have a bad dubbing for him in the final movie.

By the way, I'm incredibly sad about Fox' dubber having to be replaced because of health problems. His voice is inseparable from Morgan Freeman to me. It will be odd to hear him with another voice. And even letting the TDKR dubbing aside, I really hope he gets better soon.

Personally, I never liked the Italian Bruce, so I don't really expect to like him in TDKR, and considering the amount of emotional scenes he will have, I'm a bit afraid. Oh well, I hope he'll manage to surprise me.
I like Selina's voice.
And I'm soooo curious to hear Blake.

Anyway, nothing can redeem the horrible title we got. It's cheesy, and it completely misses the meaning of the original title. It's true that the English "RISE" has an incredibly multilayered meaning for which I doubt there's a perfectly analogous word in Italian, but any solution would have been better than just giving up and making up a totally different title that makes the film sound like a campy, "B-movie" version of The Dark Knight Returns.
I, for one, would have been happy with something like "L'Ascesa del Cavaliere Oscuro". Maybe the religious connotation of the English "Rise" and the French "Ascension" goes a bit lost (we have the very specific words "Resurrezione/Ascensione" for that) but still it preserves most of the original meaning.

Can't wait to see the film tomorrow!

I'm not from Italy, no, but I did major in Italian at my university. I also spent two years studying in the Bel Paese-- one in Viterbo, and one in Bologna. Amazing times in an amazing country.

That's too bad to hear about Morgan Freeman's dubber. I hope he gets better soon! I also really liked how Selina sounded; Italian is a language that seems to fit femme fatales perfectly, from the crime movies I've seen.

As far as Blake goes, wouldn't they use the same dubber for JGL that they used in Inception? I've only seen the trailer in Italian for that one, but Arthur sounded good to me.

And the title is pretty rote in Italian, I agree. What's funny is that, in the third trailer, they have that intercut line in text of "un fuoco risorgera" for "a fire will rise"... And yet no one thought that maybe "Il Cavaliere Oscuro Risorgera" might be a perfectly fitting title. Or even perhaps using "risorge", in a pinch.

Oh well.

But wait; how are you seeing it tomorrow? I thought it didn't come out in Italy until the 29th. All the same, I hope you enjoy it! It's a great film.

[Lynn]

Wow, it's great to hear there's someone studying Italian out there!
And ha! Maybe we crossed paths in Bologna without knowing .

I wouldn't mind it if they used the dubber from Inception for JGL. He was good, and I think his voice may fit Blake very well (at least, my idea of Blake after watching the trailers, lol ).

And the title is pretty rote in Italian, I agree. What's funny is that, in the third trailer, they have that intercut line in text of "un fuoco risorgera" for "a fire will rise"... And yet no one thought that maybe "Il Cavaliere Oscuro Risorgera" might be a perfectly fitting title. Or even perhaps using "risorge", in a pinch.

.

Yeah, you're right, I noticed that as well, it's odd. Nice suggestion, by the way, I like "Il Cavaliere Oscuro Risorge" . It's a verb that probably appears more rarely and in more "specific" contexts if compared to the English "rise", but still it would have preserved the multiplicity of meaning intact, and it would have sounded quite epic and poetic.

It does come out on the 29th, but tomorrow there will be preview screenings in most cities. Originally this preview day was announced as an IMAX-only thing (which means 2 cinemas in the whole country, one in Riccione - the only "real" IMAX theater in Italy - and one in Milan), then they decided to extend it to "normal" cinemas as well. And thanks. I'm ready to have a great time!

EDIT: I skim-read again through this whole thread, I'll let you know about the "fratello/frate" issue!
Much as I'd love for it to be translated as "frate", I think it will be "fratello" though, they'd probably be afraid that most people would just take it literally and wonder when the mercenary had taken his Franciscan vows. A bit like the whole "Wait a minute, so Boromir and Aragorn are BROTHERS?" LOTR debacle.

[Lynn]

First of all, sorry for double-posting.

After finally getting to see TDKR, here are my first impressions on the Italian dubbing:

- Great job on Selina Kyle/Catwoman. As I wrote in the review thread, Selina was one of the greatest suprises for me in the film, and her dubber did her part in making her a memorable character. Loved both her voice and the delivery of her lines.

- As for Blake, I honestly can't say if he was the same dubber from Inception because I was too absorbed in his character. I guess this means he did a good job. Seriously speaking, I liked him a lot. I mean, with Blake it never even occurred to me that I was watching a dubbed actor.

- Bruce/Batman. I still don't like his dubber, but IMO his delivery of his lines was much better here than in TDK.

- Bane: ouch. Maybe I'd have liked him better if I had never heard Hardy at all, but I was a bit disappointed with him. Lots of ups and downs in his acting throughout the film. Hardy sent shivers down my spine in the trailers alone, while the Italian Bane sounded a bit "flat" in comparison, I almost never got from him that sense of menace Hardy gave me. Also, I didn't really like what they did with his voice itself. The effects sounded a bit... lazy. I don't know.
I did love his delivery of "By then, it was only BLINDING", though. The way he screamed "ACCECANTE" was genuinely scary.

Honorable mention for

Crane's

dubber. A very small role, but he played it with a perfect eerie quirkiness.

Unfortunately, I can't say much about the translation since I haven't seen the film in English yet - though I'm planning on watching it again in both languages. I'll only say I really liked the translators' choice for "A fire rises", "Un fuoco divampa".
And to answer Jazzpha's question, I confirm that when Bane leaves behind the mercenary in the prologue he calls him "fratello". As far as I can remember, the only religious subtext as regards the LoS is the word "scomunicare", "excommunicate", with reference to

Bane being kicked out

, but I suppose it was the same in the original version.