love how he's keeping a grip on the rhythm and physicality..my type of shit

Allstar wrote:

mchekhov wrote:but in TDK he's a sane

:suicide:

He's got a point actually.

"The Joker could just be an average guy who may have woke up, looked at the world, and said 'This doesn't make sense.'"

~Captain Logan
The Joker could be a sane man who just feels like there's no reason to try and control the world and make order cause it will always fail in the end.

Bacon wrote:

Allstar wrote: :suicide:

He's got a point actually.

"The Joker could just be an average guy who may have woke up, looked at the world, and said 'This doesn't make sense.'"

~Captain Logan
The Joker could be a sane man who just feels like there's no reason to try and control the world and make order cause it will always fail in the end.

exactly...the entire film the joker is going off about corruption, hypocrisy of social masks, schemes, organizations...and he tells the truth...all of his orchestrations are revolved around the truth of this hypocrisy..he's able to win all his gambles because he relies on the truth

"What where you trying to prove? That deep down, everyone's as ugly as you?" I think what Batman said here was Jokers real intentions. All that stuff about chaos and anarchy was just a scapegoat. Joker was an evil psychopath who wanted to prove that if you put people in the worst situation they will all turn on each other. Joker wanted to prove everyone is as evil as him deep down. In the end, he did have a plan and it's what Batman said.

ComptonTerry wrote:"What where you trying to prove? That deep down, everyone's as ugly as you?" I think what Batman said here was Jokers real intentions. All that stuff about chaos and anarchy was just a scapegoat. Joker was an evil psychopath who wanted to prove that if you put people in the worst situation they will all turn on each other. Joker wanted to prove everyone is as evil as him deep down. In the end, he did have a plan and it's what Batman said.

ofcourse he had a plan, but it doesnt change the fact that what he said about the world was largely true...he proves it in spades

does Lau offer to rat on the mob? yes
do Gordon's own men betray him? yes
Is Dent corruptible? yes
etc

he only loses onces (at the end with the boats, but if you think about it he was inches away from being right), but for the most part, everything he says turns out to be true..

mchekhov wrote:

ComptonTerry wrote:"What where you trying to prove? That deep down, everyone's as ugly as you?" I think what Batman said here was Jokers real intentions. All that stuff about chaos and anarchy was just a scapegoat. Joker was an evil psychopath who wanted to prove that if you put people in the worst situation they will all turn on each other. Joker wanted to prove everyone is as evil as him deep down. In the end, he did have a plan and it's what Batman said.

ofcourse he had a plan, but it doesnt change the fact that what he said about the world was largely true...he proves it in spades

does Lau offer to rat on the mob? yes
do Gordon's own men betray him? yes
Is Dent corruptible? yes
etc

he only loses onces (at the end with the boats, but if you think about it he was inches away from being right), but for the most part, everything he says turns out to be true..

He is right about several things but the question is, was he wrong about everyone being as evil as him? The outcome of the situation on the boats, the fact that they didn't blow each other up, leads us to believe perhaps his overall outlook was wrong. That's how Bruce see's it.

Bane is also right in thinking that Gotham is a very bad place and needs to be destroyed. theres a difference between thinkers and doers and sanity.

mchekhov wrote:

ComptonTerry wrote:"What where you trying to prove? That deep down, everyone's as ugly as you?" I think what Batman said here was Jokers real intentions. All that stuff about chaos and anarchy was just a scapegoat. Joker was an evil psychopath who wanted to prove that if you put people in the worst situation they will all turn on each other. Joker wanted to prove everyone is as evil as him deep down. In the end, he did have a plan and it's what Batman said.

ofcourse he had a plan, but it doesnt change the fact that what he said about the world was largely true...he proves it in spades

does Lau offer to rat on the mob? yes
do Gordon's own men betray him? yes
Is Dent corruptible? yes
etc

he only loses onces (at the end with the boats, but if you think about it he was inches away from being right), but for the most part, everything he says turns out to be true..

The fact that Joker is mostly right about people and society being hypocritical (until the ferry scene, it's important to note) doesn't negate the fact that he's a psychopath. Heath Ledger went to pretty great pains to portray him as one, and I'd also argue his disregard for danger and pain is a big check in the psychopath column. Visit any mental health institutions and you'll find insight paired up with insanity. I've known several people with crippling mental health issues, and they tend to be pretty brilliant people in their lucid moments.

ComptonTerry wrote:

mchekhov wrote:

ofcourse he had a plan, but it doesnt change the fact that what he said about the world was largely true...he proves it in spades

does Lau offer to rat on the mob? yes
do Gordon's own men betray him? yes
Is Dent corruptible? yes
etc

he only loses onces (at the end with the boats, but if you think about it he was inches away from being right), but for the most part, everything he says turns out to be true..

He is right about several things but the question is, was he wrong about everyone being as evil as him? The outcome of the situation on the boats, the fact that they didn't blow each other up, leads us to believe perhaps his overall outlook was wrong. That's how Bruce see's it.

Well, IMO the world is as evil as him. The world is corrupt and always will be. But that's kinda bringing religion into this, so I'll stop.

ComptonTerry wrote:

mchekhov wrote:

ofcourse he had a plan, but it doesnt change the fact that what he said about the world was largely true...he proves it in spades

does Lau offer to rat on the mob? yes
do Gordon's own men betray him? yes
Is Dent corruptible? yes
etc

he only loses onces (at the end with the boats, but if you think about it he was inches away from being right), but for the most part, everything he says turns out to be true..

He is right about several things but the question is, was he wrong about everyone being as evil as him? The outcome of the situation on the boats, the fact that they didn't blow each other up, leads us to believe perhaps his overall outlook was wrong. That's how Bruce see's it.

That's not how I read that scene....the way it played out, made it seem like if it was another day, perhaps they would have blown themselves up


I think that's what made the joker so captivating and mesmerizing..because despite the ugliness of his actions, deep down inside everybody in the audience recognized the truth in what he was saying...he tapped into our subconscious minds and showed us something we already knew but try to forget everyday..we see it in the world around us

this is, why i said the joker in TDK is way different than the joker in the comics, because in the comics he does not do this for the reader