What is Nolan's deepest film? (themes & characters)

**RIFA** July 1, 2011, 9:30 pm

Z. Cobb wrote:
theweatherman wrote:Because the Dark Knight presented a study of man's nature in a way no other film has.

In a way the prestige also did that...

Uhm no... I disagree.

Look at themes The Prestige had... or should I say... the THEME??

Now take a look at the themeS The Dark Knight had...

**Addicted2Movies** July 2, 2011, 1:48 am

Memento is his deepest film...no doubt about it. That film has depth in storytelling, depth in themes, and depth in character. In fact...it's so deep that no one can quite grasp the film's ultimate truth.
The second deepest I would say goes to Inception. Third, interchangeable between Prestige and TDK.
All his films are very deep though.

**Bacon** July 2, 2011, 6:50 pm

No votes for Batman Begins?
Batman Begins explores the essence of fear very well. Also, Batman has to control himself so he doesn't end up like Ra's.
In my vision:
1. The Prestige
2. The Dark Knight
3. Batman Begins

2 and 3 can be interchangeable for me.

**JimmyFraska** July 2, 2011, 9:35 pm

Too many deep themes!

Website · **Z. Cobb** July 2, 2011, 9:55 pm

RIFA wrote:
Z. Cobb wrote:
In a way the prestige also did that...

Uhm no... I disagree.

Look at themes The Prestige had... or should I say... the THEME??

Now take a look at the themeS The Dark Knight had...

Come on the prestige had just as many themes as the Dark knight did... it didn't just have one single theme. Narcissism, Obsession, fidelity, loss, guilt, hatred, it displayed the growth of men, the future through these scientific discoveries will be both tragic and Victorious. They represent man’s evolution into something Godlike.

The prestige is a much more of a study of man's nature. It hits all the notes.

**RIFA** July 3, 2011, 12:15 am

Z. Cobb wrote:Come on the prestige had just as many themes as the Dark knight did... it didn't just have one single theme. Narcissism, Obsession, fidelity, loss, guilt, hatred, it displayed the growth of men, the future through these scientific discoveries will be both tragic and Victorious. They represent man’s evolution into something Godlike.

The prestige is a much more of a study of man's nature. It hits all the notes.

Uhmm.. can you tell me what you understand by a movie's theme? because based on what you mentioned then I could find about 10 different "themes" (or what you call themes) in 8 from 10 movies...

**Samsara17** July 3, 2011, 1:05 am

RIFA wrote:
Z. Cobb wrote:Uhmm.. can you tell me what you understand by a movie's theme? because based on what you mentioned then I could find about 10 different "themes" (or what you call themes) in 8 from 10 movies...

Well anyone can find a lot of themes in any movie, but with a movie like The Prestige, those themes play crucial roles in the entirety of the film. They were themes implemented into the story intentionally with a purpose, where as with your common bs film, you can find a dozen themes yet they don't play much a part in the story, and weren't written with the focus that they have a specific meaning.

**RIFA** July 3, 2011, 2:05 am

Samsara17 wrote:
RIFA wrote:

Well anyone can find a lot of themes in any movie, but with a movie like The Prestige, those themes play crucial roles in the entirety of the film. They were themes implemented into the story intentionally with a purpose, where as with your common bs film, you can find a dozen themes yet they don't play much a part in the story, and weren't written with the focus that they have a specific meaning.

You're giving the "everybody has a different view so there could be many themes in a film" argument which is a disturbing and false thing.

A theme must represent and cover the whole plot of the movie (or at least half of it.
Now some movies might have two parallel themes but no more than that because it would be impossible for the story to develop correctly.
Now these themes might have sub-themes but even those sub-themes are not nearly as interpretable as you may think.

For example:

-hatred isn't a theme in the prestige. it's just a feeling that is explored like in any other movie.
-fidelity isn't a theme in the prestige. fidelity alone is barely a theme in any movie.
-loss isn't a theme in the prestige. it's a fact of life that is explored in any movie including Memento, TDK, BB or Following.
-guilt isn't a theme in the prestige. it's again just a feeling that is explored again in TDK, Memento, BB or Insomnia.
-narcissism is hard to be a theme for any movie because on narcissism alone you barely can develop any strong story.

I agree that obsession is the theme in The Prestige. Does The Prestige have a parallel theme to that? Probably "the passionate commitment" or the venture of "ego and intellectual greed"... These are themes.

I asked how many themes does anyone see in TDK because The Prestige is built on one theme and one theme only. Everything else are just ingredients and if you wanna go there, sub-themes.

However, for the Dark Knights, is hard to identify that ONE theme. Surely most people will say "chaos and everything that surrounds it" and they will be right. But TDK could very well have a parallel theme because TDK offers parallel stories and parallel themes. Another parallel theme is "responsibility and the power to assume it"... Everything else, love, violence, guilt, loss, hatred, madness are just tools to keep these themes on the right track from a storytelling point of view.

Don't confuse themes with simple feelings, actions, facts or issues between two sides in a film.

A theme refers to something general, to the whole big picture not to details like a common "loss".

**theweatherman** July 3, 2011, 2:13 am

For me the theme in TDK is the nature of man whether he is naturally good or naturally evil. Its a very basic theme, but one that is still hotly debated by philosophers. Where this theme is made obvious is in the boat scene, but once you recognize it as the theme you realize that the main characters represent various stages of man's descent to evil. Batman represents the good and the Joker represents evil, while Dent is a good man who is corrupted by evil. Or if you could make the argument that all of them are evil as the Joker tries to do and that they will eventually fail at being good just as Dent did.

This is a huge difference than the rest of Nolan's films where good and evil are not so well-defined. Most of his films rely on a lot of grey areas and questionable characters (even Batman Begins to an extent), but the Dark Knight rises above that to represented one of the oldest philosophical debates known to mankind.

That's why I say the Dark Knight is his deepest film.

**tykjen** July 3, 2011, 10:46 am

RIFA wrote:
Z. Cobb wrote:
In a way the prestige also did that...

Uhm no... I disagree.

Look at themes The Prestige had... or should I say... the THEME??

Now take a look at the themeS The Dark Knight had...

So tell me. What is the ONE theme in The Prestige?

Self sacrifice, Obsession, duality, secrets, Magic, deception, Rivalry, "exact" science.. In my opinion aside from yours, The Prestige has several themes intertwined like no other movie.