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Huh...Nolan made a movie about religion...

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Huh...Nolan made a movie about religion...

Post Z. Cobb June 18, 2011, 4:16 pm

A screenwriter with a university degree or any screenwriter wouldn't waste their time invoking religious ideas, there is no point, rather they would get a philosophy text(s), psychology text(s), something that brings up questions and asks more than it answers, something that will make the viewer create their own idium, something to talk about.

The fact that certain characters have similar traits is perhaps coincidence, and not to be look into too much, its just obsessive.

With your ideologies perhaps all films haver eligious ideas/themes, this isn't the case.. with the examples.. its perhaps much more spiritual or naturalistic then religious, its something that the audience can visually understand to create some sort of expression.
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Huh...Nolan made a movie about religion...

Post RIFA June 18, 2011, 4:29 pm

prince0gotham wrote:He denied to have had the intention of making a movie about filmmaking and people are on about religion...


What he denied doesn't really matter...

If i'd write a screenplay based on let's say religion but change some names and some patterns, come up with a new technological issue and so on I don't think I would want someone else to know from where did I draw my main ideas. Imma keep it for myself, my little secret. :neutral:
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Huh...Nolan made a movie about religion...

Post prince0gotham June 18, 2011, 5:00 pm

I know it doesn't. I still see it as a movie about filmmaking. It's just that if that isn't so (while being so obvious and fitting for the movie) then what's left for religion?
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Huh...Nolan made a movie about religion...

Post trevelyan June 18, 2011, 5:20 pm

prince0gotham,

Why does it need to be either/or? The film is clearly self-referential in following its own rules for the construction of dreams. I'm not convinced Nolan comes down one way or the other, but a case can clearly be made that if Fischer's catharsis is self-generated then Cobb's "redemption" is as well.

Z. Cobb,

Tell me, Socrates, are you in earnest, or only in jest? For if you are in earnest, and what you say is true, is not the whole of human life turned upside down; and are we not doing, as would appear, in everything the opposite of what we ought to be doing?


Whenever I read Plato, I am less and less sure that the origins of philosophy and religion are much different. :)
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Huh...Nolan made a movie about religion...

Post Z. Cobb June 18, 2011, 5:28 pm

thats Plato... come on... give me a break... thats like saying how Art had subtle references to religion. come back to me when you have read on Existentialism or naturalism.
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Huh...Nolan made a movie about religion...

Post prince0gotham June 18, 2011, 5:31 pm

@trevelyan

Because I see no point and (more importantly) I see nothing that can justify it. I see point for him to do a movie about movie-making or anything of that level and scale. Movie about war, humanity, vanity, all kinds of frailties. Everything would have a point. If it was the Cohen brothers I see how and why they would make it a movie about religion, but this is Nolan and it doesn't seem right. One can analyze it all he wants and find enough proof, but in the end I'm quite sure it isn't a movie about religion, because it seems too detached and uncalled for. You analyze and you think that the proof you find means that it's a movie about religion, but I think that whatever symbolism he might've intentionally implemented within the movie was for the sake of symbolism, not for the sake of symbolism intending to make it a movie about religion. He might've used ancient mythological/byblical motifs, that wouldn't make the movie a movie about Hercules or Jesus.

Even the Theseus+Ariadne+Labyrynth thing doesn't make it a movie about Theseus, the Minotaur or Greek mythology. It's still a movie about dreams, their possibilities and obsession.
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Huh...Nolan made a movie about religion...

Post Z. Cobb June 18, 2011, 5:35 pm

prince0gotham wrote:@trevelyan

Because I see no point and (more importantly) I see nothing that can justify it. I see point for him to do a movie about movie-making or anything of that level and scale. Movie about war, humanity, vanity, all kinds of frailties. Everything would have a point. If it was the Cohen brothers I see how and why they would make it a movie about religion, but this is Nolan and it doesn't seem right. One can analyze it all he wants and find enough proof, but in the end I'm quite sure it isn't a movie about religion, because it seems too detached and uncalled for. You analyze and you think that the proof you find means that it's a movie about religion, but I think that whatever symbolism he might've intentionally implemented within the movie was for the sake of symbolism, not for the sake of symbolism intending to make it a movie about religion. He might've used ancient mythological/byblical motifs, that wouldn't make the movie a movie about Hercules or Jesus.

Even the Theseus+Ariadne+Labyrynth thing doesn't make it a movie about Theseus, the Minotaur or Greek mythology. It's still a movie about dreams, their possibilities and obsession.


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Huh...Nolan made a movie about religion...

Post Jones June 18, 2011, 5:47 pm

Religion is just a mutated degree of philosophy. So lets cut the horseshit and just go straight to the core. Philosophy has existed as long as man has, lets not have this relatively new trend of 'western religion' take the credit for what is really just fundamental human philosophical thinking.
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Huh...Nolan made a movie about religion...

Post RIFA June 18, 2011, 6:17 pm

Whatever it is said in this topic I must give props to... "trevelyan" for being actually smart and giving good comebacks even if most (including myself) don't agree with.

It's obvious the guy did his homework and is very well documented.

I prefer this kind of people ...
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Huh...Nolan made a movie about religion...

Post trevelyan June 18, 2011, 8:40 pm

prince0gotham,

I agree with your point that symbolism must serve a purpose to be meaningful. But in this case the point should be obvious: the allusion provides an answer to the puzzle Nolan poses when he focuses on the spinning top at the end of the film. It tells us the ending is not simply another level in an infinitely recursive maze of imagined worlds. Cobb is not dreaming. Or - if he is - there is something qualitatively different about this one.

The why is always open for discussion. You can argue that Nolan is making a Christian movie, or view Cobb's salvation as entirely imaginary. It's also possible Nolan is simply invoking religious imagery to explore the question of how we come to hold certain beliefs ("the genesis of an idea" as he puts it). If you push me on it, I'd argue that we're supposed to take the ending at face value, if only because Inception is constructed as two parallel stories of alienated sons who seek reconciliation with their fathers. Given the prevalence of religious iconography it does not seem unreasonable to interpret this as commenting in some capacity on man's presumed alienation from God. I suspect the point of the comparison is to suggest that if Cobb's redemption is real then Fischer's must be too, even if it is entirely in his head. Woohoo.

On a different note, I like the Coen brothers' films although I don't think any of them is as good as Inception. If I'm avoiding details on this stuff it's because I think the problem with a lot of comments on this thread (especially ones hostile to the idea that films can be about ideas) is that there is a lot of "I think" when the author really means "I want to believe". I suspect it would be a more interesting discussion if we had more "look at what Nolan does" or "here is some supporting evidence", even if it contradicted the way I've come to see the film.

thats Plato... come on... give me a break...


Z. Cobb,

I don't think I've said anything offensive to you, so I'll just assume your overt hostility is because you're threatened by something else. Maybe it is the ideas, although that is sad because they can't hurt you, and if you're convinced I'm in the thrall of a horrible and ill-considered ideology and am trying to foist it on you then you should pity me instead of attack me.

The truth is that I just like good films and think Inception is one of the greats. If you really wanted to talk about philosophy, the starting point for any serious philosophical discussion of epistemology or ontology or the relationship between dreams and reality is of course The Republic. I shouldn't need to quote Whitehead to a self-avowed naturalist and I think you should read more Plato if you doubt this. But regardless of this, as far as I can tell, all you're saying is that you don't like religion and that anything which invokes religious symbolism bores you. So consider the point taken, for all it is obviously worth.
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