What are the accepted plotholes in Inception?

[theweatherman]

Didnt Sataio die after Cobb & the architect girl go into Fischer Limbo? So how did cobb know that Satiao was dead and he had to get him from the limbo? Satio died at a higher level than the limbo?
I saw the movie once so maybe I was wrong.
A constantly spinining top is termed perpetual motion, so unless dreams defy the laws of thermodynamics (which they didnt as all the bombs and grenades expolded propotionally) we have a plothole

Yeah Saito died after they left, but he was fading and Cobb knew he was going to die any minute.

[Windows 7]

Also, I'm paraphrasing here, but when they discuss going into limbo and Eames says he will stay behind to set the charges while Saito holds off the guards, Cobb says to Eames, "He's not going to make it, is he?" and Eames shakes his head sadly.

[gluvnast]

considering the "it was all a dream" is still in play, there are NO PLOT HOLES. if it's all in cobb's head, then he can project anything he wants, manipulate the rules as he pleases, and most importantly, when dreaming (especially in real time), anything LOGICAL is out the window!!

[QBComics]

I thought the top would constantly spin in anyones dreams, not just Cobbs.

I have a question though: How do Cobb and Mal grow old together, but they died as a young couple ("You're waiting for a train...")

[Elerinwen]

I have a question though: How do Cobb and Mal grow old together, but they died as a young couple ("You're waiting for a train...")

I think some images are a mix of Cobb memories and what Ariadne imagines based on those memories. That's why they first appear to be dying young, and we only see they actually died old when Cobb reveals that information.

Besides, if they showed them old from the beginning, then Mal's plead of "let's grow old together" wouldn't have made sense. They needed to "hide" the fact that they actually did grow old together for the end.

[Dingman]

I have a question though: How do Cobb and Mal grow old together, but they died as a young couple ("You're waiting for a train...")

I think some images are a mix of Cobb memories and what Ariadne imagines based on those memories. That's why they first appear to be dying young, and we only see they actually died old when Cobb reveals that information.

Besides, if they showed them old from the beginning, then Mal's plead of "let's grow old together" wouldn't have made sense. They needed to "hide" the fact that they actually did grow old together for the end.

To me, the scenes that they are young in represent what Cobb believes to have happened in his mind, because the whole reason why he can't let go of Mal is because he feels guilty that he did not fulfill his promise of growing old together with her. As soon as he realizes that he did in fact grow old with her in limbo, he is able to let go of Mal, and during that confrontation with her is when we, AND Dom both realize that they've had their time.

[Nastro]

1. Level 1 did not correctly influence kicks.
There has been discussion on these boards about a push kick and a pull kick. My impression is that any kick is indeed one of these two things: a pull from the level above that creates a kick, or a push from the current dream level. In case of the former, Arthur falling off the chair is demonstration of this. His falling sensation in reality is experienced in the dream, so he is kicked. In case of the latter, dying or falling serves as a push without the need for any influence from the level above. I'm fine with that so far.

Now, the van falling in level 1. I can see no way in which the van falling would not kick Arthur from level 2 (the Hotel). He is 'conscious' in level 2, and he is experiencing the falling sensation from the van which would pull him out of level 2. At the same time, Yusuf would experience a push from the falling which wakes him up to reality. Before anyone says 'it was heavy sedative!', Yusuf explained that the inner ear functions as normal so it doesn't matter how strong the sedative, falling kicks you.

The falling kick was set for reality. That is if it happened in reality, they would have awoken instantly. Because they are in a dream, they are falling much much much slower and as such has less effect. Much more they were thoroughly strapped in. Its like the feeling you have in a plane you know you are moving, you just cant feel it.

2. Fischer coming back to life in level 3
I don't see how this is in any way possible, and unravels too many rules set by the movie. He was shot, he died, he went to limbo. The severity of dying in a dream level under heavy sedative was out-lined in level 1 - that you would be lost to limbo. If it were as simple as jumping off a building in limbo to kick yourself back to the previous level you died in, then limbo is little more than a temporary inconvenience? This is probably the thing I have the most issue with, as it completely undermines 'limbo' - it certainly would have saved Saito a whole load of trouble.

The problem with limbo is not getting simply getting out, it is the first accept that where you are is not real. While you are in there, you have no access to the conscious. Which is why they had to GO FOR Fischer rather than wait till he died or freed himself.

3. The Spinning top is not a totem
Arthur explains the purpose and design of totems to Ariadne. The unique property of a totem is known only to its bearer, and can therefore be used to discern whether you are in someone else's dream. Arthur's loaded die would roll 1-6 in a 'foreign' dream but roll only one number in his own dream, Ariadne's hollowed chess piece would be heavier to a foreign dreamer. That makes sense, fine. It effectively serves as a compass for those wary of extraction or inception - totems do not separate reality from your own dreams, only your dreams from foreign ones.

So, the spinning top - it's uniqueness is not in that which is physical. In a 'foreign' dream, the top would behave like any normal person would imagine it, like a die rolling 1-6, or a heavy chess piece, the top would spin then topple. The only feasible situation where the top could only spin indefinitely is in Cobb's own dreams (and limbo, it could be argued, as it's a shared dream-state) - its behaviour is imagined. But this makes it nigh useless as without any real physical property attached to it to ground it as a totem, it will behave any way in which Cobb dreams it. The movie seems to suggest, however, that the top discerns any dream from reality, which is not how totems were explained, and essentially makes the top magic. To me, this just undermines the final scene, as the top is basically flawed at telling us or Cobb anything.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. It is not a flaw but intent of the movie. This is what was used to identity the fact that the whole movie was COBB's dream. The totem he is using does not even exist in his dreams. Since it is not his. It is just a projection.

Other miscellaneous things:
- Why is the fort being blown up in level 3? You cannot pull someone from limbo (as is evident from Cobb not being pull-kicked).

The fort was blown up to force them to die at the level to go to the former level. This was done because it was a race against time. COBB cannot was not at that level when it was blown up so it did not work on him. Everyone who was awake at the fort was sent to the elevator level on the explosion and the elevator level sent them back to the van.

- If Mal is a malevolent influence in the inception plot, wouldn't she simply have told all to Fischer in the time they spent alone together in limbo (it would have been hours, even days), to completely foil the planned inception?

[/quote]

Mal's intention not to foil the inception plot. The true inception is not on Fischer but on Cobb.

[JMSbrolic]

I'm tired of hearing people say things like they're given facts. Let's just get a couple of things straight. We can't say it was a dream and we can't say it was reality. It's what we think. Amd the totem isn't really a plothole. Mal made the totem that could spin forever in a dream, so it is in fact a reliable totem. Since Mal is dead, Cobb can use the totem. There is no rule saying the totem can't be used by someone else. The problem is that it can be manipulated, but if Mal is dead and Cobb is the only one using the totem, what's wrong with that?? Now I understand it's weird that it can spin forever in a dream, but Mal invented the totem and designed her totem that way. We don't know how, but she did. The fact that Cobb knows how it works is all that matters. Mal made the very first totem, so it's not unreasonable that hers would be very unique and different from the others.

[Dingman]

1. Level 1 did not correctly influence kicks.
There has been discussion on these boards about a push kick and a pull kick. My impression is that any kick is indeed one of these two things: a pull from the level above that creates a kick, or a push from the current dream level. In case of the former, Arthur falling off the chair is demonstration of this. His falling sensation in reality is experienced in the dream, so he is kicked. In case of the latter, dying or falling serves as a push without the need for any influence from the level above. I'm fine with that so far.

Now, the van falling in level 1. I can see no way in which the van falling would not kick Arthur from level 2 (the Hotel). He is 'conscious' in level 2, and he is experiencing the falling sensation from the van which would pull him out of level 2. At the same time, Yusuf would experience a push from the falling which wakes him up to reality. Before anyone says 'it was heavy sedative!', Yusuf explained that the inner ear functions as normal so it doesn't matter how strong the sedative, falling kicks you.

I may be wrong, but I thought that you needed two synchronized kicks from the level you're on and the level before you to wake up from heavy sedation. This would explain why Ariadne and Fischer need to fall from the building, why Eames makes plans to blow up the snow fortress before Fischer falls into limbo, why Arthur does not wake up from the first kick (as he had not prepared the kick on the hotel level in time), and why Yusuf does not wake himself up with the first kick.

2. Fischer coming back to life in level 3
I don't see how this is in any way possible, and unravels too many rules set by the movie. He was shot, he died, he went to limbo. The severity of dying in a dream level under heavy sedative was out-lined in level 1 - that you would be lost to limbo. If it were as simple as jumping off a building in limbo to kick yourself back to the previous level you died in, then limbo is little more than a temporary inconvenience? This is probably the thing I have the most issue with, as it completely undermines 'limbo' - it certainly would have saved Saito a whole load of trouble.

From what Ariadne said, we'd have to assume that under normal conditions, dying from limbo wakes you up, but when timed with a synchronized kick from the prior level, it would bring them back to that level.

[hellcat8715]

Hey all. I am new to this board, but I have been reading your theories and it is some interesting stuff. While I do not agree with all of it, I have developed some questions of my own about Inception. Let me first preface this by saying that I love this movie. I have seen it all the way through 6 times at this point so I consider myself very familiar with the subject matter. Initially I was very satisfied with the plot, but with subsequent viewings, I have become less satisfied with the answers I once thought I knew.

My first real problem was that of why the kick on the hospital was needed (as the kicks generally pull you up a level, not push), or alternatively, why the kick on the van was needed (if we accept the idea that the push kick works the same as a pull kick). I don't remember who it was, but someone on this board mentioned that due to the sedatives, both a push and a pull kick were needed to bring them up. I don't know if this is ever stated in the film, but I can accept this as plausible.

Another thing i find interesting to think about is whether the act of falling in limbo is what brought Fisher and Ariadne out of it, or if they both hit the ground and the act of dying is what brought them back to the 3rd dream level. But this doesn't really matter in the scheme of things.

My current issue has to do with why Cobb and Saito wake up after everybody else on the plane. If we accept that Cobb and Saito kill themselves to escape limbo, then shouldn't they first wake up in the 1st dream level? My argument for this is that Cobb has not aged at all when he is taken to meet the now old Saito, so this couldn't be that long after Ariadne escaped with Fisher. And given the time conversion between limbo and the 1st dream level this would have taken place long before the timer (on the plane) would have waken everybody up from the 1st dream level. So it seems that Cobb and Saito should wake up and have to wait out the week in the 1st dream level with everyone else. And if this is the case, they should wake up at the same time as everyone else on the plane. On the other hand, if we are to believe that the timer has already gone off and awakened the other teammates, Cobb and Saito would have awoken as well. You don't get trapped in limbo forever, it just slows down time so much that it seems like forever, but they would have woken up simultaneously with the others when the timer got to zero. But clearly neither of these things happen. So I am forced to think outside the box. The only way i can make sense of Cobb and Saito waking up after everyone else is if the rest of the crew, still in dream level 1, found a way to wake up before the timer was done. Maybe Yusef had some cool chemist trick, i dunno, but that is the only possibility i can see. Even that still presents the problem that, when the others woke up and disconnected themselves (as well as Cobb and Saito so Fisher wouldn't be suspicious) they would have woken up as soon as they were disconnected from the machine. I suppose that Cobb could have been tapped in Limbo a lot longer than he was he first time, but since he was aware of it, he didn't age this time. But they still should have woken up with everyone else at the very latest. The act of killing themselves (which to be fair we don't see) would have awaken them even sooner, so they would definitely have woken up with the end of the timer.

I have to say, the mere act of typing out this conundrum has me more firmly in the "it was a dream" camp then I have been up until this point. I hope that, A) this makes sense to you, B) Someone will have seen something that I may have missed and can clear this up. Although I honestly don't know that it can be resolved. I wish you luck on this mental maze that has consumed hours of my waking life!