I mean't lost as in state of mind, not physically lostjm9843 wrote: Almost. Cobb knew that Saito would be lost in limbo somewhere but he was certain that he could find him and bring him back. After all, he would need to do so in order to avoid spending the rest of his life in jail and never seeing his kids again. However, he knew exactly where Fischer would be: with Mal. Mal wants him to stay with her in limbo for an eternity and knows that Cobb will be coming for Fischer. They do share the same brain after all.
jm9843 wrote: Through a pull-kick in combination with death could they leave limbo. "Normally" death is the way to go, as discovered by Mal & Cobb. But a pull-kick is also required due to Yusuf's designer sedative. I believe that the pull-kick is necessary so that the lucid-dreaming part of the mind can find its way back to "constructed" dream space. Ariadne believes that they can ride Eames kick back from limbo and says as much before going under. Eames reminds them that he won't be waiting for them if they aren't on time.
I can buy this, but it seems like a lot of extra narration outside the set up logic of the movie. Again, I can accept it though.
His experience in this regard are not relevant. Dying in general was required. Not becasue they were in limbo state, but because they were dreaming and without sedative (so it seems).jm9843 wrote:Cobb already knows that dying will be required because of his experience.
What is a jump, though, is the logic of this. Killing yourself while under sedative would send you further. Once in the furthest dream state, if dead logic would mean that you would stay in limbo or go to the unconscious (past subconscious) state where a kick from level three would be null and void. If not, how does killing yourself get you "closer" to level three for the kick to work. Even if thinking about it differently that it getting you closer, how does the logic of killing yourself to get out of limbo but then to get pulled into level 3 work? Where do you go before being pulled by the kick in level 3. It's almost logical and I know many share this view and its almost almost almost plausible, but still just missing that one last bit of logic.jm9843 wrote:We can assume that he filled Ariadne in on this little detail on the stroll to Cobb and Mal's old apartment. Nolan doesn't show you this because he knew people would be bitching about too much exposition. This isn't too much of a leap (pun not intended) to believe because of the events in Mal & Cobb's apartment. Cobb alerts Ariadne of the kick and tells her that she needs to go. Which she eventually obliges by pushing Fischer out of the window and jumping to her death. But not before pointing the gun at Cobb, which we can assume was to kill him so that he'd come along on the pull-kick too. Cobb convinces her that would be bad and he stays in limbo to find Saito. The pull-kick, by itself, was not enough to bring Cobb back to level 3 with Ariadne and Fischer.
jm9843 wrote:It was the pull-kick created by Eames in combination with Fischer's assisted suicide courtesy of Ariadne. It doesn't matter that it wasn't his choice. He hadn't been in limbo for very long and as such, hadn't yet accepted it as his reality. i.e. no scrambled eggs for brains.
Assisted suicide is the common term for controversial actions by which an individual helps another person die upon their wanting to do so. You can't assist in a suicide unless the recipient chooses to die. Your version of assisted suicide is murder (relatively) and does not hold true. Death in general, maybe, but suicide, no. Again, the suicide in Cobb and Mal's dream has no relevance to a law about suicide and limbo.
This is the first time this narration makes completely logical sense and without much need for "faith" from the audience. Okay. Check. My bad along with everyone else's. It was just sly and easy to scramble.jm9843 wrote:Which kick are you referring to? Arthur is never supposed to "feel" a kick when the van hits the barricade right before it goes over the bridge and into free-fall. The plan is for Yusuf to put the headphones on a sleeping Arthur in the van right before he drives off the bridge. This is intended to signal Arthur to initiate a pull-kick to bring everyone at level 3 up with him at level 2. With everyone on level 2, the kick created when the van hits the water (the only one that Arthur is intended to "feel") is supposed to pull them all up to level 1 where they will share oxygen in the submerged van before waiting for the dream machine on the 747 to hit 00:00.
However, things don't go according to plan. Usuf is taking unexpectedly heavy fire in the van on level 1 and rushes the job. He plays the music too early for Arthur who can't get back to the hotel room in time (he's handling some baddies at the time) to detonate the explosives to drop everyone through the hotel floor to pull-kick them back from level 3. With the van now in free-fall, Arthur needs to find another way to do his one job: create the kick on level 2 that brings everyone from level 3 back up with him. Zero-g high jinks ensue.
Just to be clear: the act of the van hitting the barricade on the bridge before going over is NOT the kick that the characters are talking about in the dialog. The reason that the characters at level 3 realize that they "missed" a kick is because they didn't wake up in the hotel room at the time of the avalanche! Please ignore the misleading "levels" diagram on Cinemablend!
And yet still, there is no logic to how a death-pull works in unison...shoot I almost had it kinda like the tip of my tongue revelation...but nope. How would a kick work when you can't feel it in death. Meaning they can supposedly feel a kick in limbo, but only after death will it be in effect...hmmm....B.S. logic, but since I love the movie so much I can just take a leap of faith and go where it decides to take me. And it doesn't matter where that is because we will be together in the end.jm9843 wrote:Dying in limbo while under sedation and no synchronized pull-kick just leads to more limbo. Maybe you find yourself washing up on a shore and being taken hostage by guards? It seems plausible enough.