Spurple wrote:

Jarmel wrote:Yes the line “You can’t be kicked out limbo” was never said in the film but it’s certainly true. If they could be kicked out of Limbo then why would Cobb and Ariadne take the risk of even going into Limbo in the first place after Fischer? They could have just used the defibrillators and then kicked him awake.

I can't comment on Fischer, cause I still don't understand how he could come back to life after being killed. I thought it wasn't just because he was in "limbo," but because Mal had him trapped there. They had to get him back from Mal.

You’re also being somewhat dramatic with the numbers. The 10 seconds it would take you to wake up and shove the person next to you would almost certainly not be some ridiculous 10 million years. Also before you say “How would you know what the time effect would be?”, there is certainly a correlation between the real world(and the levels) with Limbo. Look how long it took for the effects of the explosion and the defibrillators to kick in. It wasn’t anything like 10 years in Limbo but rather a few minutes at max.

But as I said, that's why I think the "limbo" that Fischer got sent to was really just level 4. That explains the time difference perfectly.

The big threat of limbo is that it could be INFINITE. How could it be INFINITE if the time difference isn't that big of a deal?

Before I go any further, give me a realistic explanation for what level you think limbo is, time wise? Limbo time is about what dream level time? 5? 6? 7?

If it was Level 4 then kicks should have worked. Also Fischer wasn’t hooked up to any dream equipment so it would have been impossible for him to proceed along the linear Levels anyway. The only reason Cobb and Adriane would have gone after him would be if he was in a place where they couldn’t kick him out. Any of the Levels without heavy sedatives you can kick a person out. I hesitate to say “with heavy sedatives” because the rules regarding those and kicks are somewhat unclear. Cobb also recognizes it as Limbo too.

Yusef really just blurts out “It could be Infinite. I don’t know”. The only one who does know what Limbo is, is Cobb. Nobody else has measure the time effect in Limbo so the time effect might be something simple such as the previous Level you were on or it could even vary. Nobody in the movie measured it.

Jarmel wrote:Yusef really just blurts out “It could be Infinite. I don’t know”. The only one who does know what Limbo is, is Cobb. Nobody else has measure the time effect in Limbo so the time effect might be something simple such as the previous Level you were on or it could even vary. Nobody in the movie measured it.

Well you can't tell me nobody knows, and then tell me that I'm being unrealistic. You can't tell me it might be INFINITE, and then tell me millions of years is impossible.

You be realistic. My math was too far fetched for you? Then tell me the math that makes sense to you. Around what level of time would limbo realistically be?

I need to know if in your mind limbo is actually a threat, or if in your mind limbo time isn't that dangerous at all.

You know I gotta be honest, my rating of Inception has gone up since the discussions of the kicks.

It just amazes me that Nolan has made a film that we could debate about for hours, days, possibly weeks on end..

Spurple wrote:

Jarmel wrote:Yusef really just blurts out “It could be Infinite. I don’t know”. The only one who does know what Limbo is, is Cobb. Nobody else has measure the time effect in Limbo so the time effect might be something simple such as the previous Level you were on or it could even vary. Nobody in the movie measured it.

Well you can't tell me nobody knows, and then tell me that I'm being unrealistic. You can't tell me it might be INFINITE, and then tell me millions of years is impossible.

You be realistic. My math was too far fetched for you? Then tell me the math that makes sense to you. Around what level of time would limbo realistically be?

I need to know if in your mind limbo is actually a threat, or if in your mind limbo time isn't that dangerous at all.

All I know is that there is a close correlation of some kind. I just can't say the numbers of that correlation.

@Cilogy
Mine has gone down because the kicks are plotholes.

I don't think the kicks are plotholes. They're intricate, but they are logical. Everyone gets kicked back to level 1 in order except Cobb and Saito who go to Limbo. They go right to the plane because they "die" rather than get "kicked" just like Mal and Cobb go right back to reality from Limbo rather than through the other levels.

Jarmel wrote: All I know is that there is a close correlation of some kind. I just can't say the numbers of that correlation.

Where do you get close correlation from? It was a multiple of 20 at each level, and then Yusuf said "INFINITE." How do you think infinite is a close correlation to a multiple of 20? Infinite is something that we can't even fathom. Now I can fathom millions of years, which is why I don't think it's unrealistic when dealing with infinity.

Since you're avoid it so sternly, I'll give it a go:

Level 10. That's not too unrealistic, is it? That limbo is like level 10? I'm not going to the hundreds of thousands. I'm going to the lowest possible double digit.

Now one second in reality, at level 10 would be 324,700 years!

Now you can figure out how long you think it will take to wake Mal up after Dom comes out. Maybe immediately, he grabs her and gives her a good shake. 5-10 seconds. Between 1.5 and 3 million years.

But maybe he's a little dazed, so it takes longer to get his head straight. Maybe it takes 20-30 seconds. That could bring it up to 6.5 million years.

Now maybe, because she is so deep, he would have to dunk her to bring her out. Just like Dom had to be dunked in the opening scenes. If it took a minute at level 10, it would be almost 19.5 million years.

Now that is terrifying. That is the limbo I imagine when Yusuf said INFINITE. But for you, you imagine like level 4 or 5. That takes away from the threat of limbo, and the quality of the film.

paladinryan wrote:I don't think the kicks are plotholes. They're intricate, but they are logical. Everyone gets kicked back to level 1 in order except Cobb and Saito who go to Limbo. They go right to the plane because they "die" rather than get "kicked" just like Mal and Cobb go right back to reality from Limbo rather than through the other levels.

They can't die. They're sedated. They'd have to wait for the 10 hour plane ride to finish (that's how long the timer was set for). They were in level one for about 8 days.

Spurple wrote:

Jarmel wrote: All I know is that there is a close correlation of some kind. I just can't say the numbers of that correlation.

Where do you get close correlation from? It was a multiple of 20 at each level, and then Yusuf said "INFINITE." How do you think infinite is a close correlation to a multiple of 20? Infinite is something that we can't even fathom. Now I can fathom millions of years, which is why I don't think it's unrealistic when dealing with infinity.

Since you're avoid it so sternly, I'll give it a go:

Level 10. That's not too unrealistic, is it? That limbo is like level 10? I'm not going to the hundreds of thousands. I'm going to the lowest possible double digit.

Now one second in reality, at level 10 would be 324,700 years!

Now you can figure out how long you think it will take to wake Mal up after Dom comes out. Maybe immediately, he grabs her and gives her a good shake. 5-10 seconds. Between 1.5 and 3 million years.

But maybe he's a little dazed, so it takes longer to get his head straight. Maybe it takes 20-30 seconds. That could bring it up to 6.5 million years.

Now maybe, because she is so deep, he would have to dunk her to bring her out. Just like Dom had to be dunked in the opening scenes. If it took a minute at level 10, it would be almost 19.5 million years.

Now that is terrifying. That is the limbo I imagine when Yusuf said INFINITE. But for you, you imagine like level 4 or 5. That takes away from the threat of limbo, and the quality of the film.

paladinryan wrote:I don't think the kicks are plotholes. They're intricate, but they are logical. Everyone gets kicked back to level 1 in order except Cobb and Saito who go to Limbo. They go right to the plane because they "die" rather than get "kicked" just like Mal and Cobb go right back to reality from Limbo rather than through the other levels.

They can't die. They're sedated. They'd have to wait for the 10 hour plane ride to finish (that's how long the timer was set for). They were in level one for about 8 days.

Yes because the explosion and the defibrillator shocks took hours and days to reach Limbo. That whole time Eames was fighting with the guards must have been thousands of years to Adriane and Cobb. Can you stop making up random numbers? Just because we don't know the exact details and workings of the time dilation effect in Limbo doesn't suddenly mean 1 second in the real world equates to a hundred years. In fact the evidence points to it being something closer to Level 4 but we're not sure.

Spurple wrote:

kyuen1 wrote:However, if they do follow a timeline, there's this chart here: http://sojabean.tumblr.com/
I think that the bunch on the riverbank in the end only waited for a couple of minutes. So at most, Cobb and Saito spent maybe a couple decades. Certainly not millions of years.

How could it only be a couple of minutes? They were sedated for the whole 10 hour plane ride. Which means level one lasted 8.3 days. Which means they still had about 8 days left to live. That's where the millions of years comes from.

I suppose this boils down to how exactly we're all doing our math. My impression was that 5 minutes in real life = 1 hour in Level 1, which logically is a factor of 12. But if we go by the factor of 20 (I'm not sure where this comes from, maybe it's in the movie and I don't remember) then:

Real time of 10 hours is:
Level 1: 8.3 days
Level 2: 166 days
Level 3: 3333 days, 9.25 years, 9 years, 4 months
Level 4: 185 years

Read more: http://www.nolanfans.com/forums/viewtop ... z0uB7FC6qq

So maybe I was wrong about the minutes - maybe they in fact sat on the riverbank for a few days, who knows. But assuming Saito and Cobb were dead for all 10 hours of the plane trip - which they weren't - the most time they could have spent in Limbo was 185 years.

Also, here's a quote from the Dileep Rao interview:

I think a lot of people are confused by the ending/beginning where Ken Watanabe is an old man in limbo, but Leo is still super handsome.
Well, two ideas. One: Leo is aged too, but he's been down there less time and from a younger age. Cobb is in his forties and Saito in the eighties by the time they meet.

This, and the fact that Saito's not a fossilized dinosaur by the time he and Cobb meet, indicates that time would pass in limbo closer to a level 4 and not some later level.

Leo knows his way around Limbo. He might be able to control his aging. Note that when he and Marion lay on the train track they're younger.

I'm pretty sure that you'll age in limbo only (most likely?) if you surrender to it and accept it as your reality. If one holds on to the understanding that they're in a dream or realize that they're in a dream then the affect of aging subsides. I think this is the most likely theory as Cobb and Mal are young again when they accept the limbo as a dream and decide to leave. This also explains why Saito is significantly older than Cobb since he's since lost grasp of reality but Cobb hasn't.