Jarmel wrote:Again Limbo is dangerous because you would be stuck there until the sedatives wore off since your body would be dead. Would you want to be stuck in a fake world for god knows how long with only projections you created yourself to keep you company? It could drive you insane. Hell people can go insane from short periods of isolation. It would in some ways be the best prison and in others the worst prison imaginable(literally).

And again, how is that different from being stuck in level 5, not knowing you are in a dream?

It’s quite possibly they WERE down there for millions of years. We don’t know. Cobb looks pretty beaten up and Saito looks old as dirt. They both were stuck down there for quite a while. That is the truly scary part about limbo. I would bet money that every single person in the history of the human race would lost their sense of reality being stuck in a place like that for thousands and thousands and thousands of years.

If you believe they were down there for millions of years, and they were back to normal 30 seconds after waking up... There is no way that is realistic. You keep saying that the threat of limbo is that you could lose your mind, but if Dom and Saito didn't lost their mind, then I don't see that being realistic. I can't buy "Well Dom and Saito are just really bad ass, that's why they kept their mind." I don't care how bad ass you are, a million years would mess with your head a little more clearly than it did.

Limbo itself is not particularly threatening, it’s just the sedatives make it a very hellish possibility and if you forget that Limbo isn’t reality then you can very easily lose yourself down there.

And I refuse to believe that limbo is not particularly threatening. If limbo itself is not particularly threatening, then this movie just lost a lot of points. There is still the unchallenged fact that, by that definition, the sedative makes every level a hellish possibility if you forget that Limbo isn't reality.

I believe limbo is 100% unbelievably threatening, all of the time. There is no way to enter limbo without it being a threat.

Spurple wrote:

Jarmel wrote:Again Limbo is dangerous because you would be stuck there until the sedatives wore off since your body would be dead. Would you want to be stuck in a fake world for god knows how long with only projections you created yourself to keep you company? It could drive you insane. Hell people can go insane from short periods of isolation. It would in some ways be the best prison and in others the worst prison imaginable(literally).

And again, how is that different from being stuck in level 5, not knowing you are in a dream?

It’s quite possibly they WERE down there for millions of years. We don’t know. Cobb looks pretty beaten up and Saito looks old as dirt. They both were stuck down there for quite a while. That is the truly scary part about limbo. I would bet money that every single person in the history of the human race would lost their sense of reality being stuck in a place like that for thousands and thousands and thousands of years.

If you believe they were down there for millions of years, and they were back to normal 30 seconds after waking up... There is no way that is realistic. You keep saying that the threat of limbo is that you could lose your mind, but if Dom and Saito didn't lost their mind, then I don't see that being realistic. I can't buy "Well Dom and Saito are just really bad ass, that's why they kept their mind." I don't care how bad ass you are, a million years would mess with your head a little more clearly than it did.

Limbo itself is not particularly threatening, it’s just the sedatives make it a very hellish possibility and if you forget that Limbo isn’t reality then you can very easily lose yourself down there.

And I refuse to believe that limbo is not particularly threatening. If limbo itself is not particularly threatening, then this movie just lost a lot of points.

I believe limbo is 100% unbelievably threatening, all of the time. There is no way to enter limbo without it being a threat.

The difference between Limbo and any of the Levels is that you can’t use a kick it seems to get out of Limbo. You have to kill yourself (otherwise Cobb would have just killed Mal), genuinely want to get out, and also remember or believe that you are in a dream(the whole deal with Cobb doing Inception on Mal). External kicks don’t work in Limbo.

Look at Cobb and Saito when they both wake up. Cobb seems in a slight daze and so does Saito. Everybody else is just smirking. They both almost forgot why they were there. Cobb came very close to forgetting and so did Saito. Yes Limbo had an effect on them but they both overcame it. Saito was driven by his promise and Cobb was driven to see his real kids again.

Jarmel wrote:The difference between Limbo and any of the Levels is that you can’t use a kick it seems to get out of Limbo. You have to kill yourself (otherwise Cobb would have just killed Mal), genuinely want to get out, and also remember or believe that you are in a dream(the whole deal with Cobb doing Inception on Mal). External kicks don’t work in Limbo.

OK, but that still doesn't change it. If you get lost in a deep level, 5 seconds in reality could be a million years in a level. And you would be stuck there, you wouldn't be trying for a kick. And you wouldn't know to kill yourself.

Look at Cobb and Saito when they both wake up. Cobb seems in a slight daze and so does Saito. Everybody else is just smirking.

A daze... You just explained a million years of living in your head as coming out in "a slight daze." So you might go crazy in limbo, unless you're Dom and Saito. Then you'll just be in a slight daze for a couple seconds.

The difference between Limbo and any of the Levels is that you can’t use a kick it seems to get out of Limbo. You have to kill yourself (otherwise Cobb would have just killed Mal), genuinely want to get out, and also remember or believe that you are in a dream(the whole deal with Cobb doing Inception on Mal). External kicks don’t work in Limbo.

Look at Cobb and Saito when they both wake up. Cobb seems in a slight daze and so does Saito. Everybody else is just smirking. They both almost forgot why they were there. Cobb came very close to forgetting and so did Saito. Yes Limbo had an effect on them but they both overcame it. Saito was driven by his promise and Cobb was driven to see his real kids again.

Excellent analysis, explanation.

The dialogue Cobb and Saito have about being young men again really gets to me.

Spurple wrote:

Jarmel wrote:The difference between Limbo and any of the Levels is that you can’t use a kick it seems to get out of Limbo. You have to kill yourself (otherwise Cobb would have just killed Mal), genuinely want to get out, and also remember or believe that you are in a dream(the whole deal with Cobb doing Inception on Mal). External kicks don’t work in Limbo.

OK, but that still doesn't change it. If you get lost in a deep level, 5 seconds in reality could be a million years in a level. And you would be stuck there, you wouldn't be trying for a kick. And you wouldn't know to kill yourself.

Look at Cobb and Saito when they both wake up. Cobb seems in a slight daze and so does Saito. Everybody else is just smirking.

A daze... You just explained a million years of living in your head as coming out in "a slight daze." So you might go crazy in limbo, unless you're Dom and Saito. Then you'll just be in a slight daze for a couple seconds.

We know someone else can't kick you out of Limbo as well otherwise Cobb would have just killed himself and kicked Mal out of Limbo, he had to have Mal kill herself as well. Limbo isn't normally a threat because in almost any case you can't even get there. Although we don't know how Mal and Cobb got there the first time, it seems this was a very unusual occurence and they might have been trying something experimental other than the sedation. Eames, Cobb, and Arthur are all pros and only Cobb has been there once.

Yes Eames said there is a good chance your brain would be scrambled egg and both of them it seems came pretty close. Look at how Mal and Cobb woke up after 50 years. They both were in a daze. Also I'm assuming you don't remember everything because as Cobb points out you forget most of the stuff when you wake up.

I don't think they spent a million years down in limbo...I think they would cease to be normally functioning humans haha. What I think is that the mathematics for time don't apply to limbo. Why? Because they could have gone into limbo at any given point between the levels; it doesn't have a "place" in the line of levels. All we know is, it's a place of unconstructed dream space, completely empty: what all the other levels are made of, before an architect gets to it.

However, if they do follow a timeline, there's this chart here: http://sojabean.tumblr.com/
I think that the bunch on the riverbank in the end only waited for a couple of minutes. So at most, Cobb and Saito spent maybe a couple decades. Certainly not millions of years.

Jarmel wrote:We know someone else can't kick you out of Limbo as well otherwise Cobb would have just killed himself and kicked Mal out of Limbo, he had to have Mal kill herself as well.

If Cobb killed himself and woke up, he could have turned and woke up Mal immediately. But, the 20 seconds it took for him to wake her up could have been 100000000 years in Mal's time. That's why they had to come out together. Otherwise the one who stayed behind could have been alone for millenniums.

The "You can't be kicked out of limbo" was never said in the film.

Yes Eames said there is a good chance your brain would be scrambled egg and both of them it seems came pretty close.

No. It was no where near close to "scramble egg" brains. Being in a slight daze for a few seconds... that's nothing. I wake up in a slight daze after a freaky dream. I've woken up from a dream and almost made it to the bathroom before I realized the dream wasn't real. Saito and Cobb woke up just normal. Their minds were not messed with on any serious scale.

Limbo isn't normally a threat because in almost any case you can't even get there. Although we don't know how Mal and Cobb got there the first time, it seems this was a very unusual occurence and they might have been trying something experimental other than the sedation.

Well if you're coming up with this stuff, that wasn't said in the movie, then I don't understand how their is a problem with the stuff I came up with. My idea makes it much more clear what limbo is, why it is threatening, why Cobb never got lost there, and why the other characters did. My idea explains all that, and your ideas are still "Well maybe" (which is much like mine), or "Well we don't know how."

kyuen1 wrote:However, if they do follow a timeline, there's this chart here: http://sojabean.tumblr.com/
I think that the bunch on the riverbank in the end only waited for a couple of minutes. So at most, Cobb and Saito spent maybe a couple decades. Certainly not millions of years.

How could it only be a couple of minutes? They were sedated for the whole 10 hour plane ride. Which means level one lasted 8.3 days. Which means they still had about 8 days left to live. That's where the millions of years comes from.

Spurple wrote:

Jarmel wrote:We know someone else can't kick you out of Limbo as well otherwise Cobb would have just killed himself and kicked Mal out of Limbo, he had to have Mal kill herself as well.

If Cobb killed himself and woke up, he could have turned and woke up Mal immediately. But, the 20 seconds it took for him to wake her up could have been 100000000 years in Mal's time. That's why they had to come out together. Otherwise the one who stayed behind could have been alone for millenniums.

The "You can't be kicked out of limbo" was never said in the film.

Yes Eames said there is a good chance your brain would be scrambled egg and both of them it seems came pretty close.

No. It was no where near close to "scramble egg" brains. Being in a slight daze for a few seconds... that's nothing. I wake up in a slight daze after a freaky dream. I've woken up from a dream and almost made it to the bathroom before I realized the dream wasn't real. Saito and Cobb woke up just normal. Their minds were not messed with on any serious scale.

Limbo isn't normally a threat because in almost any case you can't even get there. Although we don't know how Mal and Cobb got there the first time, it seems this was a very unusual occurence and they might have been trying something experimental other than the sedation.

Well if you're coming up with this stuff, that wasn't said in the movie, then I don't understand how their is a problem with the stuff I came up with. My idea makes it much more clear what limbo is, why it is threatening, why Cobb never got lost there, and why the other characters did. My idea explains all that, and your ideas are still "Well maybe" (which is much like mine), or "Well we don't know how."

Yes the line “You can’t be kicked out limbo” was never said in the film but it’s certainly true. If they could be kicked out of Limbo then why would Cobb and Ariadne take the risk of even going into Limbo in the first place after Fischer? They could have just used the defibrillators and then kicked him awake.

You’re also being somewhat dramatic with the numbers. The 10 seconds it would take you to wake up and shove the person next to you would almost certainly not be some ridiculous 10 million years. Also before you say “How would you know what the time effect would be?”, there is certainly a correlation between the real world(and the levels) with Limbo. Look how long it took for the effects of the explosion and the defibrillators to kick in. It wasn’t anything like 10 years in Limbo but rather a few minutes at max.

Again they were still in a dream state so they could have easily forgotten a lot of the details in limbo. Look at what Cobb says to Fischer in the bathroom, “That it’s hard to remember details from a dream and it takes years of practice”. This implies a very conscious effort to remember details and I’m guessing if you wanted to forget about a lot of the details, it wouldn’t be too hard.

Jarmel wrote:Yes the line “You can’t be kicked out limbo” was never said in the film but it’s certainly true. If they could be kicked out of Limbo then why would Cobb and Ariadne take the risk of even going into Limbo in the first place after Fischer? They could have just used the defibrillators and then kicked him awake.

I can't comment on Fischer, cause I still don't understand how he could come back to life after being killed. I thought it wasn't just because he was in "limbo," but because Mal had him trapped there. They had to get him back from Mal.

Again they were still in a dream state so they could have easily forgotten a lot of the details in limbo. Look at what Cobb says to Fischer in the bathroom, “That it’s hard to remember details from a dream and it takes years of practice”. This implies a very conscious effort to remember details and I’m guessing if you wanted to forget about a lot of the details, it wouldn’t be too hard.

Now you make limbo even LESS of a threat. You only remember limbo if you try to? Who would try to remember limbo? It would be impossible to go insane in limbo by that definition. You'd just forget it happened when you wake up.

You’re also being somewhat dramatic with the numbers. The 10 seconds it would take you to wake up and shove the person next to you would almost certainly not be some ridiculous 10 million years. Also before you say “How would you know what the time effect would be?”, there is certainly a correlation between the real world(and the levels) with Limbo. Look how long it took for the effects of the explosion and the defibrillators to kick in. It wasn’t anything like 10 years in Limbo but rather a few minutes at max.

But as I said, that's why I think the "limbo" that Fischer got sent to was really just level 4. That explains the time difference perfectly.

The big threat of limbo is that it could be INFINITE. How could it be INFINITE if the time difference isn't that big of a deal?

Before I go any further, give me a realistic explanation for what level you think limbo is, time wise? Limbo time is about what dream level time? 5? 6? 7?