arizona,

You know, you're right. It's Cobb's limbo because of the environment and the fact that Mal shoots Fischer in Level 3. She's in the deepest part of Cobb's subconscious. That is the place they've built. She's forces Cobb to go down there to confront her, to be with her.

And yes, Cobb is lost because he doesn't kick with Fischer and Ariadne.

Another criticism I'm hearing is that the use of the architect is downplayed during the actual heist instead of what we saw in the Paris sequence. Why didn't Ariadne change things while these militarized projections started after them? I guess my rebuttal to that is that remember, the projections get more hostile as you change the dreamworld. They know something's different. I would think that Ariadne wouldn't want to change too much because again, Fischer's projections are militarized, meaning the more she'd change, it's basically become a war down there...a war they couldn't win.

I think the criticism is that some felt cheated, visually during the heist.

Jumpman wrote:arizona,

You know, you're right. It's Cobb's limbo because of the environment and the fact that Mal shoots Fischer in Level 3. She's in the deepest part of Cobb's subconscious. That is the place they've built. She's forces Cobb to go down there to confront her, to be with her.

Its Cobb's because it is expalined that Limbo contains the remnants of the subconscious of the last dreamer that was down there, which he was (actually this contradicts my theory of why people are instatntly lost in limbo if they dream-die under heavy sedation---- oh well)

And yes, Cobb is lost because he doesn't kick with Fischer and Ariadne.

True and its possible that he drowned on level 1 - but this sequence of events involving Cobbs 'escape' from the dream is left very much open to interpretation.

Another criticism I'm hearing is that the use of the architect is downplayed during the actual heist instead of what we saw in the Paris sequence. Why didn't Ariadne change things while these militarized projections started after them? I guess my rebuttal to that is that remember, the projections get more hostile as you change the dreamworld. They know something's different. I would think that Ariadne wouldn't want to change too much because again, Fischer's projections are militarized, meaning the more she'd change, it's basically become a war down there...a war they couldn't win.

I think the criticism is that some felt cheated, visually during the heist.[/quote]

Yes with floating people, spinning corridors, huge crumbling cities and Escher stairs, I felt cheated too

No but you're right the role of the architect is to keep things stable, not go nuts with environment, because that would further antogonise the subconscious.

arizona,

The more you think about this film, the more you feel astounded by what Nolan was able to accomplish.

I mean, we still haven't really figured out the logic of the kicks. For me, I was looking at them backwards....from bottom to top level. I've seen suggestions that indicated that it's the other way around.

I'm not saying Nolan didn't think this all through but when you're in the film, in the moment, it all feels so damn logical. And personally, I still think it is. I mean, I've seen it two times and I've read various forums with comments about this or that plothole but damn if still doesn't feel like Nolan covered all his bases.

Everything feels like it make sense.

But ultimately, I think the destruction of the compound, the elevator destruction, and the van hitting the water are the "kicks" to get them back. The question is how do they get from Level 1 to the airplane? And even that isn't really a hole because inception has been performed so in a sense, there shouldn't be any danger. They succeed with the mission. It doesn't really matter how they get kicked out of Level 1 to the plane.

Nevermind, I know how they get out of level one...and how Cobb was able to get out of the opening sequence: the clock on the dream machine.

That's how they get out.

Death or a "kick" is used to instantly get them out of the dreamworld.

Jumpman wrote:Everything feels like it make sense.

...its only when you wake up that you realise something was strange.

Describes the film perfectly. It all felt so natural at the time...

arizona,

Yes. But, it does make sense...even if the "kick" logic is still a tad fuzzy. I just need to remember what the sedative was for to piece it all together.

I said it before, their procedures are not perfect. I don't think kicking someone is guaranteed to wake them up every time, it simply works most of the time which is why it's most often used.

Once one of them wakes up, he can wake up the others. Ariadne and JGL could just kick each other awake from level one.

When I see it again, I'll check to see who wakes up first on the plane. I think Leo and Saito are the last to awaken.

I really want to see the deleted scenes from this film--give me more Michael Caine!

Arthur stays asleep in the van because you can't be kicked with people dreaming under you. With everyone still dreaming in the snow level, Arthur couldn't be kicked by the falling sensation.

steveportee wrote:My one major confusion with the movie. The sensation of falling is supposed to be the kick to wake someone up from a dream. The sedative used does not interfere with inner ear function. With this in mind, how does Arthur stay stay asleep in the van as it is either flipping over itself, or as it is in freefall? Wouldn't those falling sensations cause him to wake up from the hotel level 2 dream?

You seem like you have a promising future here at NolanFans.