Any answers to these questions or they are plot-holes?

This 2010 contemporary sci-fi actioner follows a subconscious security team around the globe and into the intimate and infinite world of dreams.
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KShields MBV
Posts: 18
Joined: July 2010
I just came back from the first public screening here in Singapore, but I still cannot figure out the following:
Limbo - when was Dom in limbo? I thought they only go into limbo if they die in a dream that is more than one layer, if so how did Dom and Ellen's character get into Limbo, when they went to save Fischer?

I know Watanabe went there because he died and Dom stayed there because he died in the van underwater but how did Ellen get there and how did Dom get there in the first place because when he went the van was still in mid air wasn't it?
Or are these just plot-holes?
KShields MBV
Posts: 18
Joined: July 2010
Another question : what is the significance of the paper windmill in Fischer Senior's safe?
quite contrarian
Posts: 405
Joined: June 2010
Location: Houston
KShields MBV wrote:I just came back from the first public screening here in Singapore, but I still cannot figure out the following:
Limbo - when was Dom in limbo? I thought they only go into limbo if they die in a dream that is more than one layer, if so how did Dom and Ellen's character get into Limbo, when they went to save Fischer?

I know Watanabe went there because he died and Dom stayed there because he died in the van underwater but how did Ellen get there and how did Dom get there in the first place because when he went the van was still in mid air wasn't it?
Or are these just plot-holes?
We're discussing these questions in this thread, http://www.nolanfans.com/forums/viewtop ... =34&t=1958
So far, we have no concrete answer, just our speculation and opinions

As for this
KShields MBV wrote:Another question : what is the significance of the paper windmill in Fischer Senior's safe?
The paper windmill was in the framed picture of him when was young with his father holding him. Remember his father knocks it over and Fischer believes he never even notices it. The team implanted the paper windmill in there because they knew to Fischer, it would symbolize that his father cared for him all along (even though he probably didn't, it's just the team's trickery). Therefore it would be easier to deceive him with the idea that his father wanted him to be his own man and not follow in his footsteps. Sort of a drawn out answer but I think it makes sense.
ckc1ne
Posts: 6
Joined: July 2010
Answers
Limbo - when was Dom in limbo?

Limbo is the state when you no longer realise you are in a dream. This is dangerous because if you no longer know you are in a dream, you have no reason to wake up. When Cobb & Mal where building their dream world. Mal hid her "touchstone" and was in Limbo. Cobb was not. But he was accutely aware of it.

So to summarise Cobb is a "dream master" and supposed to be above being stuck in Limbo. Hence the tension of will he or won't he?

What is the significance of the paper windmill in Fischer Senior's safe?

Well it's Rosebud. Google Rosebud & Citizen kane if you need more clarity. It was a device to make you think that the windmill may be Robert Fischer, Jr's "touchstone" and he would realise he was in a dream and the con would be uncovered. But ultimately it symbolised to Robert Fischer, Jr. that his father kept it as a keepsake and therefore did have feelings for him beyond disappointment.

Obviously it's all in Robert Fischer, Jr.'s psyche so it's actually his wish fulfilment and important because it was the final device that he needed for assurance (and acceptance) from his father that he longed for. With its discovery the Incept was complete.
Hope that helps.
quite contrarian
Posts: 405
Joined: June 2010
Location: Houston
So in the end, Saito is in limbo because he is unaware he is in a dream. Cobb in the same dream space as Saito and is not in limbo because he is aware that he is actually in the 4th dream level. He washes up ashore to inform Saito that he's in a dream so he can kill himself, kicking him back to reality so he could honor his end of the deal. Leo then kills himself, and gets kicked back. Saito is older because he dies on an upper dream level (3rd), before Cobb dies on the upper dream level (2nd). But didn't Yusuf or Cobb say it was impossible to get kicked back by dying with the sedatives they were using? I'm starting to forget some details already.
KShields MBV
Posts: 18
Joined: July 2010
Thanks for the answers!

However, as what contrarian said
quite contrarian wrote:So in the end, Saito is in limbo because he is unaware he is in a dream. Cobb in the same dream space as Saito and is not in limbo because he is aware that he is actually in the 4th dream level. He washes up ashore to inform Saito that he's in a dream so he can kill himself, kicking him back to reality so he could honor his end of the deal. Leo then kills himself, and gets kicked back. Saito is older because he dies on an upper dream level (3rd), before Cobb dies on the upper dream level (2nd). But didn't Yusuf or Cobb say it was impossible to get kicked back by dying with the sedatives they were using? I'm starting to forget some details already.
How did Cobb and Saito managed to get back?

And during the final scene when Cobb meets his kids, it has a sense of deja vu- I feel that the position and movement of the kids are exactly the same as the earlier scenes when Cobb was talking to Ariadne.....

I am beginning to lean towards the theory that both Cobb and Saito didn't make it back.....
quite contrarian
Posts: 405
Joined: June 2010
Location: Houston
Yeah I'm starting to lean that way as well. It doesn't seem logical with the information we're given that they make it out. Pretty sad ending then..
jay77snipa
Posts: 24
Joined: July 2010
I am also beginning to lean that way unless someone can explain how they both made it back to the real world. I'm almost positive (I will be sure after another viewing) that, per the rules given, Saito could not come back.
Eames
Posts: 93
Joined: July 2010
KShields MBV wrote:Thanks for the answers!

However, as what contrarian said
quite contrarian wrote:So in the end, Saito is in limbo because he is unaware he is in a dream. Cobb in the same dream space as Saito and is not in limbo because he is aware that he is actually in the 4th dream level. He washes up ashore to inform Saito that he's in a dream so he can kill himself, kicking him back to reality so he could honor his end of the deal. Leo then kills himself, and gets kicked back. Saito is older because he dies on an upper dream level (3rd), before Cobb dies on the upper dream level (2nd). But didn't Yusuf or Cobb say it was impossible to get kicked back by dying with the sedatives they were using? I'm starting to forget some details already.
How did Cobb and Saito managed to get back?

And during the final scene when Cobb meets his kids, it has a sense of deja vu- I feel that the position and movement of the kids are exactly the same as the earlier scenes when Cobb was talking to Ariadne.....

I am beginning to lean towards the theory that both Cobb and Saito didn't make it back.....
I thought it was obvious Saito and Cobb didn't make it back. Ariadne said that Cobb would be alright when Arthur asked her about Cobb because she knew that he'd be happier in his limbo.
mnasyriq
Posts: 42
Joined: June 2010
IMO, Cobb is definitely dreaming. First the spinning top did not fall. And most importantly, the kids didn't seem to age. From the first time we see the two children playing in the background of the house, they look the same as when we finally get to see them reunite with Cobb. So IMO, Cobb is still dreaming. A perfect end to a wonderful movie. But do correct me if I've got it way of the mark coz I've only seen it once. :D
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