I completely agree that the totem's of the top and the wedding ring are key to exposing what is the real world and what is someone else's dream. I also think that there is something that happens at the end of the movie involving the totem that doesn't happen anywhere else in the movie. To explain this I will back up slightly and give the theory that Inception occured 3 times during this movie. Once with Mal (performed by Cobb), a second time on Fischer (performed by the team) and the third time on Cobb (performed by himself). Cobb had had the problem of doubting reality the entire movie. Two examples include 1) when he spins the totem and holds a gun to his head in case it doesn't stop and 2) when he sees mal in level 3 and says, "How do you know she isn't real?". At the climax of the movie when he is down in limbo confronting Mal he realizes a truth and says, "I can't stay with you anymore because you don't exist.You are just a shade of my real wife. you are not real." This is when he incepts the idea on himself to stop doubting his reality. Now back to the ending with the totem. I mentioned that something happens at the end of the movie that never happens earlier. Cobb spins the top when he gets home but this is the ONLY time in the movie that he DOESN'T check to see if it falls over or not. Instead he runs over to his kids and is very happy. My point is this- It is possible that the ending of this movie is reality and also that it is dream. But to Cobb, it doesn't matter. Due to inception on himself, He has finally stopped obsessing about the nature of reality and is able to be happy in the current moment.

Jmd265 wrote:My point is this- It is possible that the ending of this movie is reality and also that it is dream. But to Cobb, it doesn't matter. Due to inception on himself, He has finally stopped obsessing about the nature of reality and is able to be happy in the current moment.

My thoughts exactly. Even if we accept the rules about the totems, they don't exclude the possibility of beeing trapped in your own dream, that's why the ending scene doesn't really reveal anything. The question is, supposing he is trapped in his dream, what will happen next?
What I am interested in is whether or not his kids will change physically or psychologicaly:
Theory 1: Cobb's mind will shape them based only on memories and therefore they won't change at least psychologically
Theory 2: Cobb's mind will always alter their behaviour and appearence based on Cobb's thoughts regarding how kids grow up.
Theory 3: Cobb's mind will alter them but it will be done randomly and not realistically, based on Cobb's imagination only

If either Theory 1or 3 occurs will Cobb notice it?

Cobb spun the top to reality check himself when he got home, but ignored it when he saw the faces of his children; true assurance of reality. The one customs guard who stamps Cobb's passport has a higher rank than all the others. Saito called that guy personally to make sure Cobb had "no problems with immigration". Inception done on Cobb? By who? And where is Cobb's safe?

Baneling wrote:Cobb spun the top to reality check himself when he got home, but ignored it when he saw the faces of his children; true assurance of reality. The one customs guard who stamps Cobb's passport has a higher rank than all the others. Saito called that guy personally to make sure Cobb had "no problems with immigration". Inception done on Cobb? By who? And where is Cobb's safe?

I dont know if theres enough to say ariadne did inception on cobb for whatever reason (or that cobb did it on himself), but she saw the elevator and the basement floor, and the basement floor could be thought of as cobbs safe (since it was referred to as "keeping her there"). Even though she and cobb weren't in the basement or hotel room when they confronted Mal, they were many levels into the dream, so it may be a stretch but maybe it's the same principle.

Anyway, i do still have two questions - when cob didn't successful check for reality after first testing the sedative (the top fell off the sink in the bathroom), could the rest of the movie then technically be a dream if cobb was still dreaming at that point? I dont remember seeing cobb use the top from then on to the end of the movie, and i know the ring theory is pretty much air tight (i checked for it and it's consistent), but i havent seen any thoughts on this. Second question, cobb told ariadne how his totem works (which was dumb and follows the "cobb does a lot of things he tells people not to" thing), so couldn't she technically alter his totem in dreams however she wants?

One thing i didn't catch in the movie is HOW an architect makes the dream world before everyone is there. I know they design the general layout and even the specifics (saito's rug) in reality before they all go into the dream, but is the architect supposed to forcibly will that design into their dream? I mean, i saw nothing to indicate everyone hooked up to the machine falls asleep, meets in a space of nothing and then the architect somehow creates the world (i know this is silly, this is not my idea haha), so how does it come to be in the dream?

ricesp75 wrote: Anyway, i do still have two questions - when cob didn't successful check for reality after first testing the sedative (the top fell off the sink in the bathroom), could the rest of the movie then technically be a dream if cobb was still dreaming at that point? I dont remember seeing cobb use the top from then on to the end of the movie, and i know the ring theory is pretty much air tight (i checked for it and it's consistent), but i havent seen any thoughts on this. Second question, cobb told ariadne how his totem works (which was dumb and follows the "cobb does a lot of things he tells people not to" thing), so couldn't she technically alter his totem in dreams however she wants?

Well you answered your first question, because that is one reading you can have. That is the beauty of Nolan's filmmaking ability; making the audience look closer and think about what they are watching.
Regarding your second question, Cobb does reveal that the top is not his totem, it was Mal's. So it wouldn't really matter if Ariadne knew how it worked, because seeing Mal's shade was enough of a totem for him after her death... (I definitely deviated from the question there )

ricesp75 wrote: One thing i didn't catch in the movie is HOW an architect makes the dream world before everyone is there. I know they design the general layout and even the specifics (saito's rug) in reality before they all go into the dream, but is the architect supposed to forcibly will that design into their dream? I mean, i saw nothing to indicate everyone hooked up to the machine falls asleep, meets in a space of nothing and then the architect somehow creates the world (i know this is silly, this is not my idea haha), so how does it come to be in the dream?

Yes, the architect would use their will of imagination to change the dreamscape. However, how that individual is specified when hooked up to the PASIV is never acknowledged in the film. The same could be asked about how they make sure they go into the intended person's dream. I might have to do a rewatch and look at the different tubes they use from the PASIV - it might be the simple case of colour co-ordinated tubing??

Nice questions btw. my head hurts a little now

Cobb incepts the idea on himself

No. I don't see that that is even possible based on the film.

As to the PASIV machine, it just injects the drug which allows the dreamers to dream together.

top/ring doesn't matter even though it has to be taken into consideration.I think

As many have noted, Nolan's use of the wedding ring is impressively consistent throughout the movie. We see the ring on Cobb's finger in scenes that are clearly marked as being dreams, or as Cobb-described flashbacks; and we see Cobb's ringless finger in scenes not clearly marked as being dreams. Much effort has been expended by many, many viewers, in trying to clearly see Cobb's left hand in the final scenes of the movie--scenes over which Nolan, again, has taken much care (this time to hide DiCaprio's hand from the camera).

All this is remarkably well-done.

But...what does it prove? What can it prove? What would prevent a man dreaming of sci-fi concepts called "dream-share" and "inception" as he traveled homeward on a 747, from dreaming that sometimes his wedding ring was on his hand and sometimes it was not?

Ponsonby wrote:As many have noted, Nolan's use of the wedding ring is impressively consistent throughout the movie. We see the ring on Cobb's finger in scenes that are clearly marked as being dreams, or as Cobb-described flashbacks; and we see Cobb's ringless finger in scenes not clearly marked as being dreams. Much effort has been expended by many, many viewers, in trying to clearly see Cobb's left hand in the final scenes of the movie--scenes over which Nolan, again, has taken much care (this time to hide DiCaprio's hand from the camera).

All this is remarkably well-done.

But...what does it prove? What can it prove? What would prevent a man dreaming of sci-fi concepts called "dream-share" and "inception" as he traveled homeward on a 747, from dreaming that sometimes his wedding ring was on his hand and sometimes it was not?

It proves the ring is on Cobb when he is married, and off him when he is not
In the end when he hands over the passport it should have been easy to spot, but its not there
And in Limbo across the table from Saito, Cobb still wears the ring, and that is even after he has "let go" of his subconscious torment/marriage to his guilt. I am sure Mal will keep appearing for Cobb, even in his normal dreamshare-less dreams

"But then there's the theory that the entire film could have been a big con to get Cobb to let go of his past guilt..." I think I agree with this.

But I do not think that the spinning of the top, on which a lot of people seem to concentrate, is the key to the plot. I think the kids are, more specifically, the ages of the kids.

I see two "versions" of the girl, the 3-year old with blond fluffy hair, and an uneven cut at the back; and the 5 year old, with darker hair and a straight cut at the back.

I think that the "clue" to the plot is around 2:01, when Mal essentially tells Cobb that he is wrong about the kids, and that she is right. Of course, we are all inclined to discard her statements, but if you look at the kids, it is the "older version" of the pair which appears at this point.

Now, Nolan shows us the kids repeatedly as projections of Cobb's, during various stages of the narrative, and during the immersion, e.g. when Cobb runs away w/o looking at their faces, and then in various other instances as fleeting images (e.g hotel). Each and every time we see the younger version -- and that is normal, as Cobb has not seen his kids after that age.

So, if we get to see the "older version" at 2:01, it means they are the projection of someone else. At that point, they can only be the projections of Mal, Ariadne, or Fisher. One can envision various scenarios, depending on whose projections they are. I'd say, Fisher is unlikely, and they are either Mal's or Ariadne's -- in my mind, both are likely. If there is one character name which has engrained meaning, it is "Ariadne" (greek mythology, helping Theseus escape the labyrinth) -- here, she would help Cobb escape the labyrinth of his mind.

Also, if one accepts the premise that someone (Mal, Ariadne, Fisher) brought a "newer" (older) version of the kids (projection) into Limbo, than the immediate logical conclusion is that there is a level above Cobb's "reality", and that therefore, Mal has not killed herself by "committing suicide". Whether she has managed to re-enter reality is open for debate, maybe her brains were already fried. Depending on the answer of whether she has re-entered reality, one can conjecture on whether it is Mal running the whole show, or whether it is Cobb's father-in-law (Miles). One way or the other, I don't think that Ariadne is a "real" character, but rather a creation of either Mal or Miles.

Now, on the issue of whether at the end we are in "reality" or not -- it is entirely up to Nolan and whether he wants to make a sequel. What is certain is that Cobb has been kicked up one or more levels -- he sees the "older version" of the kids. Whether he is now in reality or not, there is no way to tell (again, his brains might be fried and all his loved ones could do for him was to liberate him from his guilt, so that he might live out his life in a blissful coma).

Also, if Cobb was not "in reality", then the whole issue of the "magic phone call" to get rid of his charges is moot: he was never charged to begin with.