Sorry for double posting but...
From POI writers twitter page.
From POI writers twitter page.
Person of Interest (TV)
"Someone Better Have a Plan". Images courtesy of the Helmer, the Writer's Room, and the Queen herself.
Last edited by ChrisTilford on July 31st, 2015, 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
These images... Acker Factor overload. Doesn't feel good just to know POI is back to filming again ? it makes me feel good. Oh and to Havoc's picture up there those treats look great but fuck CBSChrisTilford wrote:"Someone Better Have a Plan". Images courtesy of the Helmer, the Writer's Room, and the Queen herself.
i feel proud!It appears B.S.O.D. & 502 will be shot together. Despite being a two-parter, they don't connect storyline-wise (according to the Helmer).
Since Lucas is writing 502, and given this new information, I wonder if it's gonna be Root's showcase piece. And it will be the first since The Devil's Share to have a collaboration between Chris Fisher & DP David Insley & editor Ryan Malanaphy, as well as for the same DP/Editor combo with Lucas since Prophets. By pedigree alone, I can say BEST EPISODE EVER, before the cameras even start rolling.
'The Man, The Myth, The Legend....': Welcome to the Machine.
Since Lucas is writing 502, and given this new information, I wonder if it's gonna be Root's showcase piece. And it will be the first since The Devil's Share to have a collaboration between Chris Fisher & DP David Insley & editor Ryan Malanaphy, as well as for the same DP/Editor combo with Lucas since Prophets. By pedigree alone, I can say BEST EPISODE EVER, before the cameras even start rolling.
'The Man, The Myth, The Legend....': Welcome to the Machine.
I blame WB, not CBS, tbh.thedarkshaw wrote: Oh and to Havoc's picture up there those treats look great but fuck CBS
I really don't have an all time favorite female character. never really have But Amy Acker as Root might be my all time favorite female tv character. As for the male's, while POI is my new overall favorite drama of all time and i love john, Bauer might still be my favorite male character of all time ( only because i damn near grew up with that character ).
On a bummer note, Zak Schwartz, the force behind Search & Destroy, has left the writing team, in a situation similar to Amy Berg (presently on Da Vinci's Demons, wrote {1x18} Identity Crisis, was credited as a Supervising Producer for the last 7 episodes of S1, & left prior to S2). Zak was listed as producer for 8 episodes. But on the plus side, his new gig is Starz's sci-fi thriller Counterpart, starring J.K. Simmons, and directed by The Imitation Game's Morten Tyldum. Knowing their model, they don't do pilots. They go straight to series, and this one is reported to have a commitment for 2 seasons. Ideally, anywhere between 20-25 episodes.
The story description's intriguing: Simmons' character, Howard Silk, is a low-level staffer in a UN agency, which houses a crossing to a parallel dimension. Through both his character & his alternate self, 'Prime', the show'll tackle themes like idealism, identity, love, and what-ifs.
Should be fun, and has the propensity to add to Starz's recent rise in quality (Outlander, Power, The Missing, and the upcoming American Gods). Good luck to him.
Coming back to the show, I've been thinking a lot about how Shaw's arc would play out as of late. I think Martine was totally bluffing when she mentioned that she had to hurt her bad to break her, just to mess with Root. Brainwashing, though is the most diabolical, maybe a bit too extreme. And utilizing the neural implants to forcefully induce that, is too obvious. But... what if the implants were to heal her existing mental condition (her 'Axis-II Personality Disorder'), but at the cost of destroying her morality, bringing about a form of Dissociative Identity Disorder. An article I posted earlier theorized that a beta version of the implants may've had a hand in inducing the demeanor Gabriel Hayward was in, and the newer version of this might do the same to Shaw.
In a way, it's similar to Harvey Dent in The Dark Knight Returns (he was healed of the facial scars, but his personality of Two-Face permanently took over his mind. The only difference being he eventually became suicidal wreck, something they won't do with Shaw). It could also be likened to an arc of a character in the final season of Lost (I won't say who, as Gene's watching it, and I don't wanna spoil), who was manipulated into being a remorseless person. Though I was somewhat certain that the writers won't bring the character back just to kill her off right away, but this kind of story direction gives them that option, by having it serve as an act of redemption (much like how it was for her the show's own Terminator, Hersh).
Another form of corrupting Shaw that I considered is simple, straight-up manipulation. Samaritan won't do a thing physically to break her, but set her free in a suburbia that it controls, like Maple (similar to my earlier concept of "Terra Incognita": A remote suburbia which is blind to The Machine's surveillance, and is the hub for Samaritan's biggest experiments on a social level, as well as where it develops cutting edge technology to strengthen multiple industry verticals, in order to bring about an evolution in mankind, as well as increase its dominance. I'd like to think it's running an unmanned, all-drone operation like this in Antarctica or the Arctic region), subtly mess with the environment there to such a degree that she forces herself to make diabolical choices to fix it, and in the process, surrender herself to SAM's whims when she takes things a bit far, feeling she's lost her way, and SAM ensures her that by helping maintain order in the world it's trying to create, it can help her redeem herself. She'd be turned, yes, but SAM would have her believe she did it all by herself, without any external influence. And slowly pushes her into doing heinous acts, or rather, manipulates her to consider committing them herself, in the name of protecting the world. The kind of mind game that Ben Linus would be proud of.
And re-opening the aspect of the myth-arc, besides The Machine's rebirth & rise, as well as Samaritan's continued dominance through the newly established order, I wonder what else they might do. Nolan mentioned that a Singularity is not something they're interested in (where The Machine & Samaritan merge), but rather an Ecosystem (likening it to nuclear proliferation, where one intelligence begets other intelligences). Jonah referred to it as an arms race that the Machine is currently losing. I think he may not be entirely honest about that, for good reason.
If there are more, and they'd each be recruited by both parties to fight this war, where would they come from? Samaritan spent an awful lot of time behind the scenes quashing any competition that may be developed in the private sector across the globe, so that's something The Machine could try to exploit and enlist to take this on. And there's the fact that the Government shut down all other surveillance programs that it had commissioned back in 2005, when it got a system that worked. When you're facing an already pissed off AI, along with a bunch of others you went out of your way to destroy, Samaritan might be forced to respond by rebooting these forgotten government projects, and give 'em a boost to tackle this. This power struggle can be amplified, if you factor in surveillance entities from other foreign governments like China, Russia, the United Kingdom, or anyone with such capabilities. It gives it a real epic scale, by having it be a global event. This is the only way to get several AIs into play that I can think of, without involving magic, technologically advanced cosmic entities from multiple planets across the far reaches of several meta-universes, time travelling artificial consciousnesses from possible futures, or straight up Artificial Super Intelligences from alternative/parallel universes, where these things truly have taken control, but not in a subtle manner as they have in the present timeline. But if the writers go, 'We're not gonna be here much longer, so fuck all of this and let's go real crazy', I wouldn't be surprised if they end up taking the storyline in any of these 4 absurd directions. But I gotta admit: despite it bearing too much a similarity to Fringe, doing the alternate universe(s) concept here (another Bad Robot production) is something I'm open to. Different takes on the characters would be fun, and if science & technology worked differently there, the AIs could be radically dissimilar to their mainstream counterparts. The one with the sentient technology of alien origin across multiple quantum universes makes for disturbing spec fiction though.
I understand that I'm likening an AI's mindset to that of a human here, and that is not something that should be considered with this show. Maybe there'll be a more nuanced approach to this concept from the perspective of the Machines. And if I've given up on hoping they physically embody either AI, as that will reduce their mystique. As Jonah mentioned, it's important what they look at, not what they look like. He's got even lesser reason to consider that now, as Westworld is entirely on that subject, & can be explored without much creative restriction by the suits at HBO. I can simply settle for God Mode Root taking on God Mode Shaw, powered by the kind of Glasses used by the ISA, giving them visual access to MPOV/SPOV, respectively, that I mentioned earlier (as opposed to Samaritan anthropomorphizing itself through Shaw, and the New Machine doing the same with Root, and this war between ASIs gets REALLY hard to watch). And complementing these frames would be Root's cochlear implant & Shaw's neural implant. More dichotomy.
Greg also mentioned in a Comic-Con interview (can't find the link) about how an early episode in the season is confirmed to be from The Machine's perspective. I'll be ecstatic (and somewhat surprised) if it's 5x02, as it's already got a lot of cred going for it on the creative side. Factor in the non-linear aspect the season may have, and the writers' love for experimentation, the hype train will be taken to supernatural levels. If it's not 5x02, I think it'll be 5x05, preferably by Andy Callahan or Erik Mountain (been a long while since we got a myth-arc piece from the guy). And plus, it'll leave Lucas open for his ode to Root in the second episode.
Whew, that's over. Been a while since I did one of these. Don't blame you if you skip it, but feel free to share your thoughts if you've considered something along these lines. Cheers!
Funny Machine/Samaritan fan-art from DeviantArt's 'Earth XXII'.
And this one's from 'akatsuki-blast'.
And some kickass AI POV GIFs.
The story description's intriguing: Simmons' character, Howard Silk, is a low-level staffer in a UN agency, which houses a crossing to a parallel dimension. Through both his character & his alternate self, 'Prime', the show'll tackle themes like idealism, identity, love, and what-ifs.
Should be fun, and has the propensity to add to Starz's recent rise in quality (Outlander, Power, The Missing, and the upcoming American Gods). Good luck to him.
Coming back to the show, I've been thinking a lot about how Shaw's arc would play out as of late. I think Martine was totally bluffing when she mentioned that she had to hurt her bad to break her, just to mess with Root. Brainwashing, though is the most diabolical, maybe a bit too extreme. And utilizing the neural implants to forcefully induce that, is too obvious. But... what if the implants were to heal her existing mental condition (her 'Axis-II Personality Disorder'), but at the cost of destroying her morality, bringing about a form of Dissociative Identity Disorder. An article I posted earlier theorized that a beta version of the implants may've had a hand in inducing the demeanor Gabriel Hayward was in, and the newer version of this might do the same to Shaw.
In a way, it's similar to Harvey Dent in The Dark Knight Returns (he was healed of the facial scars, but his personality of Two-Face permanently took over his mind. The only difference being he eventually became suicidal wreck, something they won't do with Shaw). It could also be likened to an arc of a character in the final season of Lost (I won't say who, as Gene's watching it, and I don't wanna spoil), who was manipulated into being a remorseless person. Though I was somewhat certain that the writers won't bring the character back just to kill her off right away, but this kind of story direction gives them that option, by having it serve as an act of redemption (much like how it was for her the show's own Terminator, Hersh).
Another form of corrupting Shaw that I considered is simple, straight-up manipulation. Samaritan won't do a thing physically to break her, but set her free in a suburbia that it controls, like Maple (similar to my earlier concept of "Terra Incognita": A remote suburbia which is blind to The Machine's surveillance, and is the hub for Samaritan's biggest experiments on a social level, as well as where it develops cutting edge technology to strengthen multiple industry verticals, in order to bring about an evolution in mankind, as well as increase its dominance. I'd like to think it's running an unmanned, all-drone operation like this in Antarctica or the Arctic region), subtly mess with the environment there to such a degree that she forces herself to make diabolical choices to fix it, and in the process, surrender herself to SAM's whims when she takes things a bit far, feeling she's lost her way, and SAM ensures her that by helping maintain order in the world it's trying to create, it can help her redeem herself. She'd be turned, yes, but SAM would have her believe she did it all by herself, without any external influence. And slowly pushes her into doing heinous acts, or rather, manipulates her to consider committing them herself, in the name of protecting the world. The kind of mind game that Ben Linus would be proud of.
And re-opening the aspect of the myth-arc, besides The Machine's rebirth & rise, as well as Samaritan's continued dominance through the newly established order, I wonder what else they might do. Nolan mentioned that a Singularity is not something they're interested in (where The Machine & Samaritan merge), but rather an Ecosystem (likening it to nuclear proliferation, where one intelligence begets other intelligences). Jonah referred to it as an arms race that the Machine is currently losing. I think he may not be entirely honest about that, for good reason.
If there are more, and they'd each be recruited by both parties to fight this war, where would they come from? Samaritan spent an awful lot of time behind the scenes quashing any competition that may be developed in the private sector across the globe, so that's something The Machine could try to exploit and enlist to take this on. And there's the fact that the Government shut down all other surveillance programs that it had commissioned back in 2005, when it got a system that worked. When you're facing an already pissed off AI, along with a bunch of others you went out of your way to destroy, Samaritan might be forced to respond by rebooting these forgotten government projects, and give 'em a boost to tackle this. This power struggle can be amplified, if you factor in surveillance entities from other foreign governments like China, Russia, the United Kingdom, or anyone with such capabilities. It gives it a real epic scale, by having it be a global event. This is the only way to get several AIs into play that I can think of, without involving magic, technologically advanced cosmic entities from multiple planets across the far reaches of several meta-universes, time travelling artificial consciousnesses from possible futures, or straight up Artificial Super Intelligences from alternative/parallel universes, where these things truly have taken control, but not in a subtle manner as they have in the present timeline. But if the writers go, 'We're not gonna be here much longer, so fuck all of this and let's go real crazy', I wouldn't be surprised if they end up taking the storyline in any of these 4 absurd directions. But I gotta admit: despite it bearing too much a similarity to Fringe, doing the alternate universe(s) concept here (another Bad Robot production) is something I'm open to. Different takes on the characters would be fun, and if science & technology worked differently there, the AIs could be radically dissimilar to their mainstream counterparts. The one with the sentient technology of alien origin across multiple quantum universes makes for disturbing spec fiction though.
I understand that I'm likening an AI's mindset to that of a human here, and that is not something that should be considered with this show. Maybe there'll be a more nuanced approach to this concept from the perspective of the Machines. And if I've given up on hoping they physically embody either AI, as that will reduce their mystique. As Jonah mentioned, it's important what they look at, not what they look like. He's got even lesser reason to consider that now, as Westworld is entirely on that subject, & can be explored without much creative restriction by the suits at HBO. I can simply settle for God Mode Root taking on God Mode Shaw, powered by the kind of Glasses used by the ISA, giving them visual access to MPOV/SPOV, respectively, that I mentioned earlier (as opposed to Samaritan anthropomorphizing itself through Shaw, and the New Machine doing the same with Root, and this war between ASIs gets REALLY hard to watch). And complementing these frames would be Root's cochlear implant & Shaw's neural implant. More dichotomy.
Greg also mentioned in a Comic-Con interview (can't find the link) about how an early episode in the season is confirmed to be from The Machine's perspective. I'll be ecstatic (and somewhat surprised) if it's 5x02, as it's already got a lot of cred going for it on the creative side. Factor in the non-linear aspect the season may have, and the writers' love for experimentation, the hype train will be taken to supernatural levels. If it's not 5x02, I think it'll be 5x05, preferably by Andy Callahan or Erik Mountain (been a long while since we got a myth-arc piece from the guy). And plus, it'll leave Lucas open for his ode to Root in the second episode.
Whew, that's over. Been a while since I did one of these. Don't blame you if you skip it, but feel free to share your thoughts if you've considered something along these lines. Cheers!
Funny Machine/Samaritan fan-art from DeviantArt's 'Earth XXII'.
And this one's from 'akatsuki-blast'.
And some kickass AI POV GIFs.
Last edited by ChrisTilford on January 10th, 2016, 12:46 am, edited 26 times in total.
Jesus Christ, Chris. Now THAT is what I call an extended post.
As for the Shaw angle, I don't really know what to think about it. We'll find out eventually, I suppose, but I can't think of a compelling enough arc at the moment.
The machine perspective episode is definitely something to look forward to, though I would assume it'd be written by more than one person, simply due to importance. Speaking of which, do you think Jonah will write an episode this season?
Bummer about Schwarz, I agree, though I thought S & D was a bit overhyped.
Sorry, this post is a bit...unstructured. Just wanted to get my thoughts out. Keep going with the huge posts Chris; you're good at writing them.
As for the Shaw angle, I don't really know what to think about it. We'll find out eventually, I suppose, but I can't think of a compelling enough arc at the moment.
The machine perspective episode is definitely something to look forward to, though I would assume it'd be written by more than one person, simply due to importance. Speaking of which, do you think Jonah will write an episode this season?
Bummer about Schwarz, I agree, though I thought S & D was a bit overhyped.
Sorry, this post is a bit...unstructured. Just wanted to get my thoughts out. Keep going with the huge posts Chris; you're good at writing them.
Welcome back, bro! Trust things are well on your end!GeneMod wrote:Jesus Christ, Chris. Now THAT is what I call an extended post.
As for the Shaw angle, I don't really know what to think about it. We'll find out eventually, I suppose, but I can't think of a compelling enough arc at the moment.
The machine perspective episode is definitely something to look forward to, though I would assume it'd be written by more than one person, simply due to importance. Speaking of which, do you think Jonah will write an episode this season?
Bummer about Schwartz, I agree, though I thought S & D was a bit overhyped.
Sorry, this post is a bit...unstructured. Just wanted to get my thoughts out. Keep going with the huge posts Chris; you're good at writing them.
From a viewer perspective, the Shaw thing is so damn uncertain cause there are no substantial hints about how it would play out, and when they'll kick it off. Greg mentioned that Sarah will be back this year, and they'll be writing S5 like it's the last, which means there'll be a somewhat holistic approach to telling this story in its entirety, but at the same time, leave something for the future, should they get the opportunity to continue.
When we last saw her in Asylum, she's being led to a car, and probably seemed a bit... dazed (least as far as I can tell). She looked alright in the closing montage, but the fact that she wasn't driving (something she vehemently insists upon) raises some doubt as to her mental state (I maybe totally bullshitting with this).
With regards to the Machine POV episode, it's not necessarily true that more than one person needs to write the actual script. The biggest one so far, If-Then-Else, was a solo effort from Denise Thé, otherwise known as Executive Darkness. But given the limited number of episodes, and the many writers in the room (Greg, Denise, Lucas, Tony Camerino, Erik Mountain, Andy Callahan, Melissa Scrivner, Hillary Benefiel & Sabir Pirzada, are the ones who're definitively confirmed to be involved this season), they may have multiple collaborative episodes simply to ensure each of them get atleast 2 (besides Hillary & Sabir as they're relatively new, and Tony, cause he's the technical advisor).
With regards to Jonah, I'd have to guess, yes. Westworld kicked off production sometime last month, and given the 8-9 months that passed between the show getting picked up last November & principal photography commencing, I'd have to assume that most, if not all, scripts are complete, so that they've got the whole thing mapped out in detail, before shooting. And since 5x10 would be the 100th installment for the show, I suppose Jonah would write/co-write this one, which would be in production around late October or early November. His wife, Lisa, is the co-showrunner, could oversee things while he takes time off to be more hands-on for this particular episode (covering scripting, being on set for filming, as well as in post. Though for the latter 2 functions, the one whom he co-writes with usually handle that themselves for the most part, without his presence. Noticed some BTS shots for episodes written by either showrunner, that they're on set for only 2-3 days of the shoot, while the co-writer is around for the entire 8-9 days, including the last few days of location scouting).
I'm not sure how S&D may've been overhyped in your opinion, but that's your prerogative, and I'm gonna knock you for that. I think it was a real breath of fresh air after such a lull, post-MIA. I liked Skip just fine, purely for the character work with Michael & Amy, but this episode is one of the most tense pieces the show's done, and really got the ball rolling again on the myth-arc. Or maybe I'm just easily satisfied (SMH).
Appreciate the support, as always. Think this'll be the last long post for a while as there's nothing else I can think of, plot-wise, which I'd spend 15 minutes or so in rambling about. Maybe once the title of 5x02 is out, or something substantial shows up in the BTS pics, I can get back to this.
Have a nice weekend.
I'm still on my Sameen/Machine theory: both having made a self-sacrifice, putting them in a position of being altered in some way that will be both helpful and harmful. For Shaw, that might be helping to maintain Samaritan's utopia, but also being a weapon against Team Machine, since they're a threat to the new order.
I'd love for the writers to take full advantage of this, and make Shaw extra ghost-like, for an extra edge of paranoia, or have a single emergence completely out of the blue. If the Machine parallel holds, and they use flashbacks of what happened to Shaw, the setup could be similar to that of Endgame and The Crossing -- Carter's death coming in the latter after the focus on her in the former. Stanton's entrance in Prisoner's Dilemma is less surprising because of the flashbacks in the same episode.ChrisTilford wrote:From a viewer perspective, the Shaw thing is so damn uncertain cause there are no substantial hints about how it would play out, and when they'll kick it off.
