RIFA wrote:Skyab23 wrote:Yeah, well I don't want my government to be above the law, considering the citizens aren't allowed to be. If I torture someone, I'm getting persecuted for it. You advocate the government doing it, and it being tolerated. The United States government gets its power from the people and the government is supposed to uphold the laws and liberties of the people. Committing illegal acts such as torture doesn't abide by this objective. We just have a moral difference regarding this. I want the government to not be able to do anything a person isn't allowed to do. For instance, if I'm not allowed to possess marijuana legally, then an undercover government agent shouldn't be allowed to possess it while attempting to sell it to someone while subsequently charging them for acquiring drugs after the fact. Talk about a double standard.
The government's power is what also protects you... Sorry to break if for you but you don't control shit as a simple citizen so you should think twice before judging your government for doing things you know jack shit about. They might have to torture someone in order to keep you safe. You don't want them to do that because it's a conflict of morals? Well okay then... I'm curious if you'll think the same while walking around on one street bleeding and holding your ripped off right hand not knowing what the fuck just happened. This is a generalization because it applies for many other countries out there not only U.S. And don't even go there to compare marijuana with what someone has to do to protect his life or family...
BTW, Why haven't you addressed any issue I talked about if you're so vocal about this? Your arguments kinda lack depth and they're really superficial as hell. Think before generalizing things... Torture is a delicate subject for someone to have such a simple-minded view on it. We're not talking about marijuana here... (talking about double standard?)
what issues have you posted that you would like me to address? List them out and I'll address them one by one. I don't go around beating my chest and bragging, but for you to say my arguments lack depth and are superficial is a bit disingenuous just because you disagree with my opinion. I have a Bachelor's in Political Science and Master's in Public Administration, so I'm going to try my best not to judge you and just state that I have more credentials and have likely spent much more time than you studying and analyzing these issues. Now, does that mean I denigrate someone from not agreeing with me...absolutely not. This is in response to your comment about my posts lacking depth. Again, post your issues and I'll address them one by one.
Here's your statement from the last post that I'll respond to: "Im curious if you'll think the same while walking around on one street bleeding and holding your ripped off right hand not knowing what the fuck just happened. This is a generalization because it applies for many other countries out there not only U.S. And don't even go there to compare marijuana with what someone has to do to protect his life or family..."
What someone has to do to protect their family, is different than what a government has the authority to do. If I have a gun and I want to use it to defend my family, I have a lawful right to do so. The government here in the U.S. is engaging in an illegal act by torturing someone. It's illegal under international law and under our law. We can discuss whether or not you'd be willing to torture people in hopes that they give up some kind of information, but the reality is, legally speaking, it is illegal. This is why the Bush administration destroyed the interrogation tapes of suspected CIA agents torturing suspected terrorists(many of these suspects in Gitmo haven't even had a trial to determine their guilt, many years later, but that's a different subject all together, and I wouldn't hesitate to assume that you think they should all be there, regardless of the 6th Amendment).
So again, we'll agree to disagree over the effectiveness of torture (almost unanimously do experts say it doesn't work, and the ones who do are current federal employees who said Iraq was a threat and had WMD's and are beating the war drums to bomb Iran). Looking at the legality of the situation, it is clear...torture is illegal. If you would like to propose a Constitutional amendment to allow it to be legal, then that's Constitutional and legal.
There is evidence that some of those whom the U.S. government claimed committed suicide actually were murdered by American torturers, usually the CIA. The same agents who destroyed evidence of their torture. Overall, evidence proves that the odds are greatly increased that vital information is more likely to be gained by using a justified approach rather than torture. I'll again post this hypothetical, since many people like to use the ruse that if we knew someone with vital information that if revealed, would save lives. If one suspects that one individual out of 100 captured has crucial information, and you don't know which one it is, are you justified to torture all 100 to get that information? If the answer is yes, then a system of morality, legality and originality concerning the Constitution cannot survive.
