Does anybody else feel the world is getting dumber?

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lalyil wrote:It's easy to laugh about this but unfortunately this feels painfully true. I feel I need to mention Israel... my country has always been considered a 'Jewish-Democratic' country. Of course it's impossible to be both Jewish and Democratic. But we've always claimed we're "the only democracy in the middle east". In the past few years, especially since our current prime minister was elected (whom I despise), the country has gotten more and more religious, I don't mind Judaism, I have many religious friends, but many more are taking it to an extreme. The government actually supports this change.. giving religious Jews their own buses, the fees on these buses are cheaper than on regular buses, and women have to sit in the back!! It's like the 50s or something. Also, people in my country have always been, in a way, really snobbish. Israelis generally really feel like they're better than anyone else. It's getting worse and worse though. It's like they're oblivious to the outside world. Killing innocent children in enemy countries is absolutely fine, and telling the government they shuld bomb Iran when you don't need to be a smart ass to know it'd be the most idiotic thing to do.

I could go on and on about it but basically, people here are getting more religious, more racist, they take everything to the extreme. It's honestly getting out of hand. When I talk to scholars about the future of this country, they all truly believe it won't last too many more years.
sounds like the ugly side of nationalism...
i think nationalism has been Israel's shield against foreign aggression.. but some countries take it too far

nationalism demands unaccommodating leaders..
appearing belligerent, strong, and conservative.. the byproducts of such a reign are:
rampant and in your face organized religion, indifference towards minorities, and stubborn domestic/foreign policies

and you know the country is in trouble if there is no active and genuine liberal movement.. just one made for the sake
of appearances (superficial)..

hopefully that is not the case with Israel.. and people such as yourself can change the tide..

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Viral114 wrote:sounds like the ugly side of nationalism...
i think nationalism has been Israel's shield against foreign aggression.. but some countries take it too far

nationalism demands unaccommodating leaders..
appearing belligerent, strong, and conservative.. the byproducts of such a reign are:
rampant and in your face organized religion, indifference towards minorities, and stubborn domestic/foreign policies

and you know the country is in trouble if there is no active and genuine liberal movement.. just one made for the sake
of appearances (superficial)..

hopefully that is not the case with Israel.. and people such as yourself can change the tide..
It's getting there. It almost feels unstoppable. We used to have a very active left-wing party. Which served as a real opponent to the right-wing. It didn't matter as much because neither were really extreme.. on both sides you had the more 'extreme' parties but these two, Avoda on the left, and Likud on the right, always got most voices.

I don't know exactly when it happened but suddenly, there's no real opponent to the Likud. Avoda isn't really left anymore and doesn't really put up a fight either, it got less than 20% in the last elections if I remember correctly. In the next one I doubt they'd get 10%. Likud is using agenda given by much more extreme right-wing parties.. There was a well known, horrible, rabbi-leader who said all the Arabs should be drowned in the sea, or transferred by force to another country. Back then he was considered an outcast and an outlaw. The high court called him a racist. This right-wing party, over a decade later, is almost declaring that man a saint! They aren't saying straightforward they support his ideas, but they are giving over a million$ to have schools taught about this rabbi and he's treated in a way that makes people simply forget he was a horrible racist.

A "leftist" and another term basically saying "pretty soul" but in a sarcastic way are used as curses by right-wingers, to anyone who says anything that shows any compassion to the minorities.. obviously mostly to Palestinians. If that's not bad enough the parliament has released a few laws lately, such as one that states that any HUMAN ACTIVIST (seriously!!) or left-winged organizations such as peace now!, will need to have their sources of donations checked thoroughly to see that terrorist groups aren't funding them.

It pretty much sums it up. It shows how inequal this country is on one hand, and how more and more paranoid people here are growing to be on the other.

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and people like me are a tiny minority. Left-wing parties (real ones, not like Avoda nowadays) get less than 10% of the votes. Scholars are scared to speak up in the academy (some did and it reached the news) because their STUDENTS threaten to boycott the academy then, they complain, some have been fired because the academy is scared shitless over loss of funds. The younger ones like me just flee the country. My plan exactly when I finish my two bachelor degrees. Nothing good can come of the current situation. I've been an optimist before, but I honestly can't see any way to end this without a bloodshed, violent revolution or dictatorship.

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lalyil wrote:and people like me are a tiny minority. Left-wing parties (real ones, not like Avoda nowadays) get less than 10% of the votes. Scholars are scared to speak up in the academy (some did and it reached the news) because their STUDENTS threaten to boycott the academy then, they complain, some have been fired because the academy is scared shitless over loss of funds. The younger ones like me just flee the country. My plan exactly when I finish my two bachelor degrees. Nothing good can come of the current situation. I've been an optimist before, but I honestly can't see any way to end this without a bloodshed, violent revolution or dictatorship.
I'm a political science major and have strong beliefs on foreign policy and political ideology. Not sure what your opinion is on the matter, and I'm sure you have a much more first hand account than I do, but I'm concerned that the United States' involvement in the internal affairs of Israel is going to actually exacerbate the situation. We currently are isolating Iran as much as possible by placing sanctions on them, which hurts the average Iranian much more than Ahmadinejad or the Ayatollah. By using these methods and rhetoric, we illicit what is known as "blowback," which is a natural reaction to defend yourself or your country, when outside forces are administering harmful policies. If Israel feels the need to defend itself, it has that right and the United States shouldn't get involved with that decision, but I do not believe the United States should control Israel's decisions whether it be regarding their borders or their national defense.

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Skyab23 wrote:I'm a political science major and have strong beliefs on foreign policy and political ideology. Not sure what your opinion is on the matter, and I'm sure you have a much more first hand account than I do, but I'm concerned that the United States' involvement in the internal affairs of Israel is going to actually exacerbate the situation. We currently are isolating Iran as much as possible by placing sanctions on them, which hurts the average Iranian much more than Ahmadinejad or the Ayatollah. By using these methods and rhetoric, we illicit what is known as "blowback," which is a natural reaction to defend yourself or your country, when outside forces are administering harmful policies. If Israel feels the need to defend itself, it has that right and the United States shouldn't get involved with that decision, but I do not believe the United States should control Israel's decisions whether it be regarding their borders or their national defense.
imo, I feel Israel's current interest in Iran is fed by fear from our government. I'll give you a bit of info on our government's policy at the moment.. Since Netanyahu has been chosen 3 years ago, the economical state of the country has gone from bad to worse. Everything is twice more expensive, the middle class has become poorer. Netanyahu is known as a friend of all the tycoons and he certainly looks after them. Plenty of laws have been passed giving them more power and the small citizen, less. In the summer there were a few major demonstrations, the biggest one was attended by 500,000 people. Some have been sleeping in tents all summer in the center of Tel Aviv. A lot of noise basically that must have bothered Netanyahu. But Israelis are lazy, winter came and it all went quiet... but that wasn't the only reason. SUDDENLY, Netanyahu started going on and on about Iran. About a war. The whole country started growing fearful, and suddenly we "NEED" a prime minister like Netanyahu, a strong "hero" who can "rescue" us from the dangers ahead.
Why now? He's clearly feeding the country lies because he knows as soon as he stops going on about it, people start going on about social/economical justice. Just today an article by the country's treasurer has been published, talking about how bad the situation is.. bet you by tomorrow Netanyahu will have another 'Iran should be scared of us' speech. The country is too stupid to see it. Fear is fed by stupidity.

When Obama was elected, I remember my dad and I were hoping a democratic president will be harder on us. As in, pressure our government to do good. We were proven wrong unfortunately, though I doubt McCain would have been better.
Thing is, Netanyahu loves his "we're so powerful we don't need anyone" persona so much that even when the US or other countries speak out against his policy, he wouldn't try to change or learn from it, he calls out against them.
The other week when the Jewish kids in France were murdered by a terrorist, and a minister in France, while speaking out against it also mentioned the kids in Gaza, and in Norway during that massacre, or other places getting killed - our PM and other ministers IMMEDIATELY jumped up and said 'how could she compare the Jewish kids to the Gaza kids?' then basically went on to say that everyone in Gaza are terrorists and so the Gaza kids deserve it.. of course, not in so many words, they made it sound nicer, but that's the bottom line. And the sick thing is most of my country agrees with them.

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lalyil wrote:
Skyab23 wrote:I'm a political science major and have strong beliefs on foreign policy and political ideology. Not sure what your opinion is on the matter, and I'm sure you have a much more first hand account than I do, but I'm concerned that the United States' involvement in the internal affairs of Israel is going to actually exacerbate the situation. We currently are isolating Iran as much as possible by placing sanctions on them, which hurts the average Iranian much more than Ahmadinejad or the Ayatollah. By using these methods and rhetoric, we illicit what is known as "blowback," which is a natural reaction to defend yourself or your country, when outside forces are administering harmful policies. If Israel feels the need to defend itself, it has that right and the United States shouldn't get involved with that decision, but I do not believe the United States should control Israel's decisions whether it be regarding their borders or their national defense.
imo, I feel Israel's current interest in Iran is fed by fear from our government. I'll give you a bit of info on our government's policy at the moment.. Since Netanyahu has been chosen 3 years ago, the economical state of the country has gone from bad to worse. Everything is twice more expensive, the middle class has become poorer. Netanyahu is known as a friend of all the tycoons and he certainly looks after them. Plenty of laws have been passed giving them more power and the small citizen, less. In the summer there were a few major demonstrations, the biggest one was attended by 500,000 people. Some have been sleeping in tents all summer in the center of Tel Aviv. A lot of noise basically that must have bothered Netanyahu. But Israelis are lazy, winter came and it all went quiet... but that wasn't the only reason. SUDDENLY, Netanyahu started going on and on about Iran. About a war. The whole country started growing fearful, and suddenly we "NEED" a prime minister like Netanyahu, a strong "hero" who can "rescue" us from the dangers ahead.
Why now? He's clearly feeding the country lies because he knows as soon as he stops going on about it, people start going on about social/economical justice. Just today an article by the country's treasurer has been published, talking about how bad the situation is.. bet you by tomorrow Netanyahu will have another 'Iran should be scared of us' speech. The country is too stupid to see it. Fear is fed by stupidity.

When Obama was elected, I remember my dad and I were hoping a democratic president will be harder on us. As in, pressure our government to do good. We were proven wrong unfortunately, though I doubt McCain would have been better.
Thing is, Netanyahu loves his "we're so powerful we don't need anyone" persona so much that even when the US or other countries speak out against his policy, he wouldn't try to change or learn from it, he calls out against them.
The other week when the Jewish kids in France were murdered by a terrorist, and a minister in France, while speaking out against it also mentioned the kids in Gaza, and in Norway during that massacre, or other places getting killed - our PM and other ministers IMMEDIATELY jumped up and said 'how could she compare the Jewish kids to the Gaza kids?' then basically went on to say that everyone in Gaza are terrorists and so the Gaza kids deserve it.. of course, not in so many words, they made it sound nicer, but that's the bottom line. And the sick thing is most of my country agrees with them.
No doubt that the majority of the people here in the United States also are easily manipulated by the war-mongering and are eager to go to war with Iran because they might, one day, obtain a nuclear weapon. I have to remind them that in the history of nuclear armament, the United States is the only country to ever use one. Not to mention, Israel has an estimated 300 nuclear weapons and a very strong army, it can more than defend itself from Iran, whom I don't believe would strike anyway because as bad as the leaders are in Iran, they are much more commonsensical than people give them credit for.

I see many parallels with the people's opinions regarding Iran both from the citizens in the U.S. and Israel. Regarding the comparison to the Jewish children killed and the Gaza children....in the United States, we have this blind allegiance to killing terrorist all around the world, even if it comes at the cost of innocent lives or without due process. For instance, we have these unmanned drones that we send around the world and drop bombs on suspected terrorists. All the while, many innocent people are killed as a result. Furthermore, the legality, not to mention moral question that arises is why should the United States be able to enter a country without that country's permission, drop bombs on whomever they want, and expect no ramifications of doing so? McCain was more of a war-mongerer than Obama, and yet Obama has continued with these drone strikes and has gotten us involved in the Libya civil war, and has maintained our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq (although they claim the draw down of troops has begun, we'll still maintain a large presence there with thousands of military contractors).

Not sure if you're familiar with him, but Congressman Ron Paul's stance on these issues is a welcome relief from the petty scare tactics and immoral motives used by most in our government. He believes we should be friends with Israel and trade with them, but not coddle them, and give them foreign aid and tell them what borders to go back to or who they can and cannot associate with. We need more honest men like him but the citizens here in the states are just as easily manipulated and scared as it seems are those in your country that you described. I have a paper I just got done writing for one of my classes that I think you might be interested in, if so, just send me your email in a PM on here and I'll be glad to hook you up. :twothumbsup:

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I got to admit a Tunisian friend of mine was all for the entry and assistance of/by US troops. Like now she's wondering what is the US waiting for with Syria. Then again, Syria doesn't have much oil does it.

I'm quite ignorant when it comes to US policies, I feel I have an excuse for it though as just knowing and being angry at Israel's government takes enough of my time :lol: I've heard of Ron Paul but only what the newspapers here mentioned of him.

I do feel that right now the rest of the world needs to start taking extreme measures to make our government come out of the bubble. To start acting decently to our minorities and also other countries around us. Cos right now it seems the looser the leash is around our government - the more stupid and racist they allow themselves to act.

I'd love to read your paper. email address or? I'll PM you during the weekend as I have this horrid law exam to fail tomorrow (expected failure, honest) and I really shouldn't be here, rather I should be revising.. only I feel that I've emotionally given up on this one :problem:

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Thought provoking posts, you two.
I personally believe that this problem isn't limited to few countries but a state of entire world right now. Whether it is another country, religion, or tribe, leaders are diverting people's attention to hide their own screwed up policies, and incompetent administration.(1984, yeah I know) The people, too,on the other hand think that an able and competent leader is one who destroys their 'enemies', whereas in truth such leader will keep country calm and peaceful.
Situation in India isn't much better. The only reason there isn't war between India and Pakistan is that neither one is in condition to wage war against another.
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lalyil wrote:I got to admit a Tunisian friend of mine was all for the entry and assistance of/by US troops. Like now she's wondering what is the US waiting for with Syria. Then again, Syria doesn't have much oil does it.

I'm quite ignorant when it comes to US policies, I feel I have an excuse for it though as just knowing and being angry at Israel's government takes enough of my time :lol: I've heard of Ron Paul but only what the newspapers here mentioned of him.

I do feel that right now the rest of the world needs to start taking extreme measures to make our government come out of the bubble. To start acting decently to our minorities and also other countries around us. Cos right now it seems the looser the leash is around our government - the more stupid and racist they allow themselves to act.

I'd love to read your paper. email address or? I'll PM you during the weekend as I have this horrid law exam to fail tomorrow (expected failure, honest) and I really shouldn't be here, rather I should be revising.. only I feel that I've emotionally given up on this one :problem:
yeah just PM me your email whenever you get the chance and I'll send you a copy. Yeah, regarding Syria, the U.S. selectively picks where to intervene around the world, and it's amazing that the American people cannot see that it almost entirely involves our national interests. For instance, the Clinton administration refused to intervene in the Rwandan conflict where hundreds of thousands were being slaughtered, yet, we refuse to enter Syria where its own government is slaughtering its people. The Mao dynasty in China killed millions of innocent people, and we didn't intervene there. The list goes on and on, but regardless, when we get involved with the foreign affairs of other nations, it turns badly for us, and that's what my paper's subject is and it provides empirical evidence, not political opinion.

Most people have no idea we used to be Saddam Hussein's best friend and supplied him with chemical and biological weaponry and helped to provoke the Iran-Iraq war. Similarly, we funded the Mujahideen during the Afghan War against the Soviets, and one of the men we funded and befriended was Osama Bin Laden. So, our intervention creates blowback in ways that most people don't want to understand because if they did, they'd be outraged at our government's incompetence and exacerbation of our national security because of our redundant and dangerous foreign policy.

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Pratham wrote:Thought provoking posts, you two.
I personally believe that this problem isn't limited to few countries but a state of entire world right now. Whether it is another country, religion, or tribe, leaders are diverting people's attention to hide their own screwed up policies, and incompetent administration.(1984, yeah I know) The people, too,on the other hand think that an able and competent leader is one who destroys their 'enemies', whereas in truth such leader will keep country calm and peaceful.
Situation in India isn't much better. The only reason there isn't war between India and Pakistan is that neither one is in condition to wage war against another.
Nah... i think that cricket is the reason that there is no war between India and Pakistan :lol:

but i know what you mean.. Pakistani regimes have been strictly dichotomous in handing power to either military or
corrupt and selfish parties that get fat off of the treasury..
Sometimes i really wish batman wasn't fictional.. the world needs people to commit class treason and selflessly help their nations by exposing self righteous and power hungry SOBs sitting at very the top of the hierarchy..
these people have elaborate agendas to stay in power and hog the rights of the people beneath them..

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