Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017)

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Crazy Eight wrote:
m4st4 wrote:Having complete and cohesive arc has nothing to do with her character development, she has none in TFA. She has some in TLJ.

I connected with Rey in both movies because of Daisy Ridley, she elevates the material.
wow
She never goes beyond the realistic approach (that is realism as portrayed in 19th century France, for example): her character is a constant, only her goal changes, by the end of both movies. We care because the charismatic actress does her best, just imagine someone bland in the role, all of her flaws would hurt much more.
Last edited by m4st4 on December 22nd, 2017, 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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m4st4 wrote:
Crazy Eight wrote:
m4st4 wrote:Having complete and cohesive arc has nothing to do with her character development, she has none in TFA. She has some in TLJ.

I connected with Rey in both movies because of Daisy Ridley, she elevates the material.
wow
She never goes beyond the realistic approach (that is realism as portrayed in 19th century France, for example): her character is a constant, only her goal changes, by the end of both movies. We care because the charismatic actress does her best, just imagine someone bland in the role, all of hew flaws would hurt much more.
woooooowwwww

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Part of the difficulty is that
she taps into the Force so deeply as an instinctive thing that you could argue that were she confronted with the same scenario on Jakku as she is in the Starkiller Forest, would she still have the assets to whup Kylo's ass? Possibly. Luke however, over the course of ANH, goes from never having heard about the Force and complaining about what isn't going to be to letting go and placing absolute trust in the Force. Hence why he can make the final shot, he couldn't do it just because he's a good pilot or anything.
@Vader:
I think, looking at it from I-VIII, you now have this wonderful volte face in the penultimate chapter... I do think the disconnect is as pronounced as the obvious change of authorship in ESB from ANH. Yoda's philosophy is extremely dissonnant from that of Obi-Wan, who is all about training Luke with a weapon, goes wading into armed conflict, fucks up people in the bar... in ESB I don't think you can even imagine that Yoda would have ever had a lightsaber.

I now think TFA is important in re-establishing a cylce that the Skywalker's can't help but keep forging - I feel like the repetition now works as a strong point (although the abandonment of the main plot to deal with Starkiller is still... deeply uninteresting) to condition you for something cyclical. It makes the shift of conflict from light vs dark to progressive vs traditional more effective, and more interesting. As for the disconnect points the major one can be explained away: it's a map to the first Jedi temple, not to Luke Skywalker.

FWIW, I think that Johnson and Abrams have a very similar outlook on the powers of the Force, which is that the training is not like a video game but it is about focus, and can be called upon by those with the power when needed. Which frankly is what Lucas did anyway in TPM with Anakin's podracing.

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Vader182 wrote:A love letter to Rey and why she's one of my favorite protagonists ever:
In The Force Awakens, she begins as a lonely, sad, lonely girl obsessed with her past and parents to a self-deluding detriment. She needs that delusion for comfort and control in her life. Whereas in ANH Luke wants nothing more than to run away from his family, Rey refuses to "leave" hers. Whereas Luke hates Tatooine, Rey feels safe on Jakku. She has a power, she has a calling, she has a promise of adventure, a call, but she's terrified of it because it means abandoning that sense of home and sense of family that exists only inside her mind. But by The Force Awakens' finale, she's accepted her need to evolve, her need for progress, her need for reality, and that reality means self-empowerment and to be an agent. Culminating around handing Luke that lightsaber, the greatest gesture of stepping into the unknown.

In the end, Rey isn't greatest threat isn't Kylo Ren or Stormtroopers, it's fear of her own power and freedom and agency. Those are powerful themes, themes I connect with very deeply and they universally tap into, I think, the cusp of adolescence to adulthood, the point and design of The Hero's Journey.

What The Last Jedi does so brilliantly, is it says "okay, now that I've accepted my entry into adulthood, who the fuck am I? She hopes Han will tell her, she hopes Luke will tell her, she seeks to be defined by her past and her parents, and ultimately she hopes to save Kylo Ren and in process of to save herself through his redemption. In one of the most revealing lines of dialogue in The Last Jedi, Rey says Kylo will be The Resistance's last hope, NOT herself, since Rey thinks she's nobody from nowhere. She sees herself in the cave since her greatest fear is that nobody can define her but herself, a crack in her vanity and self-mythologizing. And it's only in her failure to save Kylo Ren that she is able to confront and subsequently accept the identity she needs, the only identity she could ever have.

Rey's conflict is really the universal conflict of the self, adolescence to adulthood into early adulthood into finally becoming an adult. She understands her values--she's decent--she understands the world around her--she's attentive and brave and smart--she understands her enemies--but the one thing Rey doesn't understand is herself. I don't know about you guys, but Rey's internal battle and struggle in both movies is something I connect with more than I ever did with Luke times 1000. It's something very powerful.
-Vader
This post is so so good. And it personally explains why
the way Rey is portrayed in the last like 20 minutes of TLJ
bothers me so much

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I just wanted to say that Crazy single handedly brought this thread back to NF stone age. Thanks for the troll, reported and blocked.

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m4st4 wrote:I just wanted to say that Crazy single handedly brought this thread back to NF stone age. Thanks for the troll, reported and blocked.
Crazy really is so annoying when talking about Star Wars.

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m4st4 wrote:I just wanted to say that Crazy single handedly brought this thread back to NF stone age. Thanks for the troll, reported and blocked.
It's back to NF stone age because one guy is trolling and people are ignoring him and you're not? :|

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Allstar wrote:
m4st4 wrote:I just wanted to say that Crazy single handedly brought this thread back to NF stone age. Thanks for the troll, reported and blocked.
Crazy really is so annoying when talking about Star Wars.
You mean he's not otherwise?£

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Bacon wrote:
m4st4 wrote:I just wanted to say that Crazy single handedly brought this thread back to NF stone age. Thanks for the troll, reported and blocked.
It's back to NF stone age because one guy is trolling and people are ignoring him and you're not? :|
You know me well enough to know that I don’t let the veteran trolls aimed at me pass, I have to comment because it never ceases to surprise me they still exist, especially from a guy... oh wait, he’s always like that. You’re right. ;)

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Rian Johnson
@rianjohnson
The goal is never to divide or make people upset, but I do think the conversations that are happening were going to have to happen at some point if sw is going to grow, move forward and stay vital

:clap:

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