Nolan Fans

Israel violates the terms they agreed on by constantly trying to build settlements on land they are not suppose to. I would throw rocks too.

All I know is the U.S. should stay out of it and mind their own business. Let Palestine and Israel handle it. We have more than enough problems to deal with without worrying about intervention.

Skyab23 wrote:All I know is the U.S. should stay out of it and mind their own business. Let Palestine and Israel handle it. We have more than enough problems to deal with without worrying about intervention.

Although i sold out in the last election i hold libertarian views so i agree with you we need a non -intervention foreign policy .

Israelis have looked to the United States for political inspiration, diplomatic support, financial and military assistance. Americans, in turn, have viewed Israel with a special appreciation for its successful effort to follow the Western democratic tradition, its remarkable economic development, and its determined struggle against its uncompromising enemies.

The conflict in the middle east, especially between Palestine and Israel is too ancient and complex. You have to dedicate yourself to the subject in order to understand everything. I'm thinking about finding time to grab some books about the two nations.

Rohan wrote:Israelis have looked to the United States for political inspiration, diplomatic support, financial and military assistance. Americans, in turn, have viewed Israel with a special appreciation for its successful effort to follow the Western democratic tradition, its remarkable economic development, and its determined struggle against its uncompromising enemies.

it's not that bright and shiny at all

Rohan wrote:Israelis have looked to the United States for political inspiration, diplomatic support, financial and military assistance. Americans, in turn, have viewed Israel with a special appreciation for its successful effort to follow the Western democratic tradition, its remarkable economic development, and its determined struggle against its uncompromising enemies.

LOL, just stop... the "uncompromising enemies" is pure bull, the arab league's official position on the matter is that if Israel fully withdraws to pre-1967 borders and a just solution for the refugee problem is arrived at then ever Arab state will establish full diplomatic relations with Israel and the Arab-Israeli conflict will be considered over (this is all in the Arab Peace Initiative - look it up). Not only that but all 57 members of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (including Iran) have supported the initiative and announced that they too would establish diplomatic ties with Israel. Let me just go ahead and repeat that for you, AS OF 2013, EVERY SINGLE ARAB STATE is ready to recognize Israel (pre-1967 borders).

The only thing Israel really "struggles against" is that every few years Hamas stupidly fires some rockets at it and Gaza is swiftly squashed like a bug. Of course this plays right into Israel's hand as it can now hide behind the "we're only acting in self-defence" excuse (as mentioned countless times in this thread by Bacon), while turning around and oppressing the Palestinians even more. Despite what many make of the conflict, for Palestinians, for most at least, this isn't about land anymore (for many that fight is long gone) all the Palestinian people want is simply to live. They want to end the occupation, have their basic rights of life just like everyone else, in peace. If they ever do get that chance, the Palestinians themselves would be the first to kick Hamas out and all the other extremists because everyone has had enough fighting imo. But is Israel really interested in peace?

@cooldude

What do you think is the solution?

If we can sit back and claim that Israel is the one who is deeply against peace with its neighbors then where does the Arab world stand? - Iran's new president after his victory said that Israel is an old wound. I just don't get the gist of their mindset. I think what the Arab leaders should do is to just forget about the past. What matters is the future. They have to accept Israel as a nation and move on. The real threat is Hamas. I think if they are smart and care about peace, they all must get rid of Hamas as Hamas is literally taking that society back towards the stone age. - There has to be a diplomatic solution. And countries like Iran must come to terms with Israel. If they really want peace.

Reminds me of the Pakistan-India issue.

Rohan wrote:@cooldude

What do you think is the solution?

If we can sit back and claim that Israel is the one who is deeply against peace with its neighbors then where does the Arab world stand? - Iran's new president after his victory said that Israel is an old wound. I just don't get the gist of their mindset. I think what the Arab leaders should do is to just forget about the past. What matters is the future. They have to accept Israel as a nation and move on. The real threat is Hamas. I think if they are smart and care about peace, they all must get rid of Hamas as Hamas is literally taking that society back towards the stone age. - There has to be a diplomatic solution. And countries like Iran must come to terms with Israel. If they really want peace.

Iran isn't a part of the Arab world, I understand that most have naturally come to associate Arab and Iran as the same but the Palestinian-Israeli conflict for the most part is an Arab issue not an Iranian one. Iran's hostility for Israel might be a combination of an obligation (being a Shi'a Islamic State) to help their fellow Muslims and, of course, for political/personal reasons. Iran, like any other state with capacity, is hegemonic, trying to dominate the region. To some extent, it's effectively fighting proxy wars with Israel/America and it's arming Hezbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad creates an added deterrence to an American/Israeli attack on Iran. Once the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is resolved in a manner accepted by both parties, as expressed in the Arab Peace Initiative (which has been on the table since 2002 to this day), they will be willing to recognize Israel alongside with the Arabs.

Most Arab nations do acknowledge Israel as a part of our region and that we all must co-exist. However, the grievances arises from a regional superpower that seems to mostly communicate through a language of force. I urge you for a minute to think about the reason why resistance organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas exist. They are a natural product of israeli oppression and injustice. They are the monsters Israel created. They are the direct cause of Israel not wanting peace. And now, Hamas are the only thing standing in the way of Israel from erasing the last evidence of Palestinians in Gaza. In 1982, when Israel invaded Lebanon and got to the capital Beirut, a deal was made between Fatah leader, Arafat, and the Israelis that the Palestinians fighters in Lebanon would leave to Libya and in return Israel would guarantee the safety of the Palestinians in Lebanon. No sooner than the boats left the Israeli army surrounded the Sabra and Shatila encampment, lit it up with flames and guided their allies, the Lebanese Phalangist in to kill thousands of defenceless women, children and elderly. That would probably be the same fate waiting for the Palestinians in Gaza now without Hamas.

Without Israeli aggression Hamas has no footing to stand on. They will change as Palestinians' relation with Israel changes, as Hamas currently represent Palestinians democratically and they acts as its bases. Once the oppression and occupation stops, they and the support they garner will organically disappear.

It is pretty difficult to make peace with a people whose existence is not even acknowledged, let alone their rights under International Law, and whose grievances only started to be heard in the 1990s (following the first Intifada). Palestinians were not only under occupation since 1967, but they were not allowed to assume control of any of their affairs until 1993. As a matter of fact, Golda Meir, Menachem Begin, and Yitzhak Shamir considered them subhuman and went as far as to deny their existence as a people. Jimmy Carter used to say that Begin always referred to Palestinians as "those terrorists living in Judea/Sumaria". The Palestinian flag was even illegal in all occupied territories until after Oslo in 1994. So, it works both ways, Israel have to accept Palestine as a state as well.