ryan4butler wrote:Red Hood wrote:
[SPOILERS] Prometheus Theories Thread [SPOILERS]
She flys the ship to the Alien planet. Done.
This is what I want to see.
Also Scott's sequal quote.
Brave New World
I want to see the gaps filled in between Alien and Prometheusryan4butler wrote:This is what I want to see.
Ridley has stated in the past that he's ignoring the AVP films as part of the Alien mythology. He might have said it before production on Prometheus began.Red Hood wrote:I want to see the gaps filled in between Alien and Prometheusryan4butler wrote:This is what I want to see.
This actually answers a lot of questions.RIFA wrote:
Brave New World
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January 2014
Exceptional long thread. It will plenty of time to read it several times and share my own review.. A good informative post though.prince0gotham wrote:
(last one from Alien)
http://www.thebuffalobullet.com/tag/prometheus/ - this is basically a collection of the info from the sources, it seems pretty well written.
The following explains how Ridley has had the idea since before Alien. At least the special connection (probably before it became all about ancient aliens teraforiming earth, although Chariots of the Gods was already written by 1979) to Zeta Retticuli 2 was completely on purpose and meaningful.
A faint pair of stars, 220 trillion miles away, has been tentatively identified as the “home base” of intelligent extraterrestrials who allegedly visited Earth in 1961. This hypothesis is based on a strange, almost bizarre series of events mixing astronomical research with hypnosis, amnesia, and alien humanoid creatures.
The two stars are known as Zeta 1 Reticuli and Zeta 2 Reticuli, or together, simply known as Zeta Reticuli. They are each fifth magnitude stars -- barely visible to the unaided eye -- located in the obscure southern constellation Reticulum. This southerly sky location makes Zeta Reticuli invisible to observers north of Mexico City's latitude.
The weird circumstances that we have dubbed “The Zeta Reticuli Incident” sound like they come straight from the UFO pages in one of those tabloids sold in every supermarket. But this is much more than a retelling of a famous UFO incident; it’s an astronomical detective story that at times hovers on that hazy line that separates science from fiction. It all started this way:
The date is September 19, 1961. A middle aged New Hampshire couple, Betty and Barney Hill, are driving home from a short vacation in Canada. It’s dark, with the moon and stars illuminating the wooded landscape along U.S. Route 3 in central New Hampshire. The Hills’ curiosity is aroused when a bright “star” seems to move in an irregular pattern. They stop the car for a better view. The object moves closer, and its disklike shape becomes evident.
Barney grabs his binoculars from the car seat and steps out. He walks into a field to get a closer look, focuses the binoculars, and sees the object plainly. It has windows -- and behind the windows, looking directly at him are ... humanoid creatures! Terrified, Barney stumbles back to the car, throws it into first gear and roars off. But for some reason he turns down a side road where five of the humanoids are standing on the road.
Apparently, unable to control their actions, Betty and Barney are easily taken back to the ship by the humanoids. While inside they are physically examined, and one of the humanoids communicates to Betty. After the examination she asks him where they are from. In response he shows her a three-dimensional map with various sized dots and lines on it. “Where are you on the map?” the humanoid asks Betty. She doesn’t know, so the subject is dropped.
NOTE:
The names of the stars were not on the map that Betty Hill remembered. In addition, if names were provided, they would have been names given by the alien race, not names used on Earth. Therefore, unless the aliens had pointed out where our Sun was on the map, even the most trained astronomer would have had no idea which stars were which on the map. As you will see later, it took Ms. Marjorie Fish much time and effort to finally come up with a possible star map based upon the assumption that the origin of the map would be the aliens’ home star (solar) system. That certainly is a reasonable assumption. If we were the astronauts visiting another solar panels and we had a three-dimensional star map aboard our starship, our own Sun would be the origin of our star map.The 'astronomy talk' is really way too complicated. Anyone who understands and is interested can read it here http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Zeta_Re ... t.htm#Zeta Reticuli Incident . I copied the above cuz it's easier to read on white background.Betty and Barney are returned unharmed to their car. They are told they will forget the abduction portion of the incident. The ship rises, and then hurtles out of sight. The couple continue their journey home oblivious of the abduction.
But the Hills are troubled by unexplained dreams and anxiety about two hours of their trip that they can’t account for. Betty, a social worker, asks advice from a psychiatrist friend. He suggests that the memory of that time will be gradually restored over the next few months -- but it never is. Two years after the incident, the couple are still bothered by the missing two hours, and Barney’s ulcers are acting up. A Boston psychiatrist, Benjamin Simon, is recommended, and after several months of weekly hypnosis sessions the bizarre events of that night in 1961 are revealed. A short time later a UFO group leaks a distorted version of the story to the press and the whole thing blows up. The Hills reluctantly disclose the entire story.
Can we take this dramatic scenario seriously? Did this incredible contact with aliens actually occur or is it some kind of hallucination that affected both Barney and Betty Hill? The complete account of the psychiatric examination from which the details of the event emerged is related in John G. Fuller’s “The Interrupted Journey” (Dial Press, 1966), where we read that after the extensive psychiatric examination, Simon concluded that the Hills were not fabricating the story. The most likely possibilities seem to be: (a) the experience actually happened, or (b) some perceptive and illusory misinterpretations occurred in relationship to some real event.
There are other cases of alleged abductions by extraterrestrial humanoids. The unique aspect of the Hills’ abduction is that they remembered virtually nothing of the incident.
Intrigued by the Hills’ experience, J. Allen Hynek, chairman of the department of astronomy at Northwestern University, decided to investigate. Hynek described how the Hills recalled the details of their encounter in his book, “The UFO Experience” (Henry Regnery Company, 1972):
“Under repeated hypnosis they independently revealed what had supposedly happened. The two stories agreed in considerable detail, although neither Betty nor Barney was privy to what the other had said under hypnosis until much later. Under hypnosis they stated that they had been taken separately aboard the craft, treated well by the occupants -- rather as humans might treat experimental animals -- and then released after having been given the hypnotic suggestion that they would remember nothing of that particular experience. The method of their release supposedly accounted for the amnesia, which was apparently broken only by counterhypnosis.”
A number of scientists, including Hynek, have discussed this incident at length with Barney and Betty Hill and have questioned them under hypnosis. They concur with Simon’s belief that there seems to be no evidence of outright fabrication or lying. One would also wonder what Betty, who has a master’s degree in social work and is a supervisor in the New Hampshire Welfare Department, and Barney, who was on the governor of New Hampshire’s Civil Rights Commission, would have to gain by a hoax? Although the Hills didn’t, several people have lost their jobs after being associated with similarly unusual publicity.
Stanton T. Friedman, a nuclear physicist and the nation’s only space scientist devoting full time to researching the UFO phenomenon, has spent many hours in conversation with the Hills. “By no stretch of the imagination could anyone who knows them conclude that they were nuts,” he emphasizes.
So the experience remains a fascinating story despite the absence of proof that it actually happened. Anyway -- that’s where things were in 1966 when Ms. Marjorie Fish, an Ohio schoolteacher, amateur astronomer and member of Mensa, became involved. She wondered if the objects shown on the map that Betty Hill allegedly observed inside the vehicle might represent some actual pattern of celestial objects. To get more information about the map she decided to visit Betty Hill in the summer of 1969 (Barney Hill died in early 1969). Here is Ms. Fish’s account of that meeting:
“On Aug.4, 1969, Betty Hill discussed the star map with me. Betty explained that she drew the map in 1964 under post-hypnotic suggestion. It was to be drawn only if she could remember it accurately, and she was not to pay attention to what she was drawing -- which puts it in the realm of automatic drawing. This is a way of getting at repressed or forgotten material and can result in unusual accuracy. She made two erasures showing her conscious mind took control part of the time.
Betty described the map as three-dimensional, like looking through a window. The stars were tinted and glowed. The map material was flat and thin (not a model), and there were no noticeable lenticular lines like one of our three-dimensional processes (it sounds very much like a reflective hologram). Betty did not shift her position while viewing it, so we cannot tell if it would give the same three-dimensional view from all positions or if it would be completely three-dimensional. Betty estimated the map was approximately three feet wide and two feet high with the pattern covering most of the map. She was standing about three feet away from it. She said there were many other stars on the map but she only (apparently) was able to specifically recall the prominent ones connected by lines and a small distinctive triangle off to the left. There was no concentration of stars to indicate the Milky Way (galactic plane) suggesting that if it represented reality, it probably only contained local stars. There were no grid lines.”
So much for the background material on the Hill incident (if you want more details on the encounter, see Fuller’s book). For the moment we will leave Marjorie Fish back in 1969 trying to interpret Betty Hill’s reproduction of the map. There is a second major area of background information that we have to attend to before we can properly discuss the map. Unlike the bizarre events just described, the rest is pure astronomy.
The 16 stars in the stellar configuration discovered by Marjorie Fish are compared with the map drawn by Betty Hill in the diagram on page 6. If some of the star names on the Fish map sound familiar, they should. Ten of the 16 stars are from the compact group that we selected earlier based on the most logical direction to pursue to conduct interstellar exploration from Earth. Continuing to take the Hill map at face value, the radiating pattern of “trade routes” implies that Zeta 1 Reticuli and Zeta 2 Reticuli are the “hub” of exploration or, in the context of the incident, the aliens’ home base. The Sun is at the end of one of the supposedly regular trade routes.
COMMENT:
Trade route? What kind of trade was going on between the Zeta Reticulans and Earthlings? That raised questions in my mind at the time I read the article back in 1975. At that time, I was completely unaware of any strange or suspicious activity going on at Nellis Air Force Base Area 51 or S4. I suspect that such a statement would raise questions in your mind as you read the text. Remember! The evaluation to determine the stars on the map was performed by Ms. Marjorie Fish in 1969 and was presented by Terence Dickinson in the December 1974 issue of ASTRONOMY Magazine. Other documents and the release of Top Secret information much later, that is, in the late 1980s, will reveal that a certain elite sect of the United States Government was dealing with the “Greys” or Zeta Reticulans and knew that they were from the fourth planet orbiting Zeta 2 Reticuli. These dealings with the Zeta Reticulans may have been taking place since the late 1940s after the saucer crash near Roswell, New Mexico, on July 4, 1947. Recall that the Army originally announced that a flying saucer had crashed in the desert near Roswell Army Air Field, then recanted the story, stating a military weather balloon had crashed.From here on some inaccurasies are discussed that are raising questions about whether this really is the right and matching bunch of stars, but it again gets too sciency, it's in the link if someone's interested.The pair of stars that make up Zeta Reticuli is practically in the midst of the cluster of solar type stars that attracted us while we were mapping out a logical interstellar voyage. Checking further we find that all but two of the stars in the Fish pattern are on the table of nearby solar type stars. These two stars are Tau 1 Eridani (an F6 star) and Gliese 86.1 (K2), and are, respectively, just above and below the parameters we arrived at earlier. One star that should be there (Zeta Tucanae) is missing probably because it is behind Zeta 1 Reticuli at the required viewing angle.
To summarize, then:
The pattern discovered by Marjorie Fish has an uncanny resemblance to the map drawn by Betty Hill,
The stars are mostly the ones that we would visit if we were exploring from Zeta Reticuli, and,
The travel patterns generally make sense.
Walter Mitchell, professor of astronomy at Ohio State University in Columbus, has looked at Marjorie Fish’s interpretation of the Betty Hill map in detail and tells us, “The more I examine it, the more I am impressed by the astronomy involved in Marjorie Fish’s work.”
During their examination of the map, Mitchell and some of his students inserted the positions of hundreds of nearby stars into a computer and had various space vistas brought up on a cathode ray tube readout. They requested the computer to put them in a position out beyond Zeta Reticuli looking toward the Sun. From this viewpoint the map pattern obtained by Marjorie Fish was duplicated with virtually no variations. Mitchell noted an important and previously unknown fact first pointed out by Ms. Fish: The stars in the map are almost in a plane; that is, they fill a wheel shaped volume of space that makes star hopping from one to another easy and the logical way to go -- and that is what is implied by the map that Betty Hill allegedly saw.
“I can find no major point of quibble with Marjorie Fish’s interpretation of the Betty Hill map,” says David R. Saunders, a statistics expert at the Industrial Relations Center of the University of Chicago. By various lines of statistical reasoning he concludes that the chances of finding a match among 16 stars of a specific spectral type among the thousand-odd stars nearest the Sun is “at least 1,000 to 1 against.”
“The odds are about 10,000 to 1 against a random configuration matching perfectly with Betty Hill’s map,” Saunders reports. “But the star group identified by Marjorie Fish isn’t quite a perfect match, and the odds consequently reduce to about 1,000 to 1. That is, there is one chance in 1,000 that the observed degree of congruence would occur in the volume of space we are discussing.”
“In most fields of investigation where similar statistical methods are used, that degree of congruence is rather persuasive,” concludes Saunders.
Saunders, who has developed a monumental computerized catalog of more than 60,000 UFO sightings, tells us that the Hill case is not unique in its general characteristics -- there are other known cases of alleged communication with extraterrestrials. But in no other case on record have maps ever been mentioned.
Mark Steggert of the Space Research Coordination Center at the University of Pittsburgh developed a computer program that he calls PAR (for Perspective Alteration Routine) that can duplicate the appearance of star fields from various viewpoints in space.
“I was intrigued by the proposal put forth by Marjorie Fish that she had interpreted a real star pattern for the alleged map of Betty Hill. I was incredulous that models could be used to do an astronometric problem,” Steggert says. “To my surprise I found that the pattern that I derived from my program had a close correspondence to the data from Marjorie Fish.”
After several run-throughs, he confirmed the positions determined by Marjorie Fish. “I was able to locate potential areas of error, but no real errors,” Steggert concludes.
Steggert zeroed in on possibly the only real bone of contention that anyone has had with Marjorie Fish’s interpretation: The data on some of the stars may not be accurate enough for us to make definitive conclusions. For example, he says the data from the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory Catalog, the Royal Astronomical Society Observatory Catalog, and the Yale Catalog of Bright Stars “have differences of up to two magnitudes and differences in distance amounting to 40 percent for the star Gliese 59.” Other stars have less variations in the data from one catalog to another, but Steggert’s point is valid. The data on some of the stars in the map is just not good enough to make a definitive statement (the fact that measurements of most of the stars in question can only be made at the relatively poor equipped southern hemisphere observatories accounts for the less reliable data).
This is what's really interesting.
“Highly unlikely,” says Salisbury -- and the other investigators agree. One significant fact against a charade is that the data from the Gliese catalog was not published until 1969, five years after the star map was drawn by Betty Hill. Prior to 1969, the data could only have been obtained from the observatories conducting research on the specific stars in question. It is not uncommon for astronomers not to divulge their research data -- even to their colleagues -- before it appears in print. In general, the entire sequence of events just does not smell of falsification. Coincidence, possibly; hoax, improbable.And it goes on and on and on and on, half of it are Carl's Sagan attempts (most of which pretty convincing or at least sounding very confindent) to suggest how there being a limited database of info (in the 60s) puts the whole thing under question and how most of the inaccuracies do as well. I haven't finished the thing yet but the reast I leave up to you. Of course the video for the zeta retticuli that's on the previous page explains further.The two stars that comprise the Zeta Reticuli system are almost identical to the Sun. They are the only known examples of two solar type stars apparently linked into a binary star system of wide separation.
Zeta 1 Reticuli is separated from Zeta 2 Reticuli by at least 350 billion miles -- about 100 times the Sun-Pluto distance. They may be even farther apart, but the available observations suggest they are moving through space together and are therefore physically associated. They probably require at least 100,000 years to orbit around their common center of gravity.
Both Zeta 1 Reticuli and Zeta 2 Reticuli are prime candidates for the search for life beyond Earth. According to our current theories of planetary formation, they both should have a retinue of planets something like our solar system. As yet there is no way of determining if any of the probable planets of either star is similar to Earth.
To help visualize the Zeta Reticuli system, let’s take the Sun’s nine planets and put them in identical orbits around Zeta 2 Reticuli. From a celestial mechanics standpoint there is no reason why this situation could not exist. Would anything be different? Because of Zeta 2 Reticuli’s slightly smaller mass as compared with the Sun, the planets would orbit a little more slowly. Our years might have 390 days, for example. Zeta 2 Reticuli would make a fine sun -- slightly dimmer than “Old Sol”, but certainly capable of sustaining life. The big difference would not be our new sun but the superstar of the night sky. Shining like a polished gem, Zeta 1 Reticuli would be the dazzling highlight of the night sky -- unlike anything we experience here on Earth. At magnitude -9 it would appear as a starlike point 100 times brighter than Venus. It would be like compressing all the light from the first quarter moon into a point source.
Zeta 1 Reticuli would have long ago been the focus of religions, mythology and astrology if it were in earthly skies. The fact that it would be easily visible in full daylight would give Zeta 1 Reticuli supreme importance to both early civilizations and modern man. Shortly after the invention of the telescope astronomers would be able to detect Jupiter and Saturn sized planets orbiting around Zeta 1. Jupiter would be magnitude +12, visible up to 4.5 minutes of arc from Zeta 1 Reticuli (almost as far as Ganymede swings from Jupiter). It would not make a difficult target for an eight inch telescope. Think of the incentive that discovery would have on interstellar space travel! For hundreds of years we would be aware of another solar system just a few “light-weeks” away. The evolution of interstellar spaceflight would be rapid, dynamic and inevitable.
By contrast, our nearest solar type neighbor is Tau Ceti at 12 light-years. Even today we only suspect it is accompanied by a family of planets, but we don’t know for sure.
From this comparison of our planetary system with those of Zeta Reticuli, it is clear that any emerging technologically advanced intelligent life would probably have great incentive to achieve star flight. The knowledge of a nearby system of planets of a solar type star would be compelling -- at least it would certainly seem to be.
What is so strange -- and this question prompted us to prepare this article -- is: Why, of all stars, does Zeta Reticuli seem to fit as the hub of a map that appeared inside a spacecraft that allegedly landed on Earth in 1961? Some of the circumstances surrounding the whole incident are certainly bizarre, but not everything can be written off as coincidence or hallucination. It may be optimistic, on one extreme, to hope that our neighbors are as near as 37 light-years away. For the moment we will be satisfied with considering it an exciting possibility.
