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Re: HBO's Game of Thrones

Posted: May 6th, 2019, 4:07 pm
by Demoph
Sanchez wrote:
May 6th, 2019, 3:51 pm
And I don't think it's purely because of high expectations that are impossible to reach, there are plenty of things that points to the story being weaker the further away from the books it has gone.
Not saying that D&D aren't responsibles, but the quality also dropped because (spoiler for season 4, lol)
Tyrion (and Varys) left King's landing, and Joffrey and Tywin died. Until then, whatever uninteresting plot happened elsewhere, like Qarth or Lysa Arryn, there were still these great interactions everytime we went back to King's landing.

Re: HBO's Game of Thrones

Posted: May 6th, 2019, 4:23 pm
by radewart
I think another problem is so many people want/expect shocking twists from Game of Thrones like Ned's death, Red Wedding, Hodor that they are disappointed with just basic straightforward storytelling; which, while there certainly have been pacing and execution issues this seasons, has been mostly fine.

Re: HBO's Game of Thrones

Posted: May 6th, 2019, 4:39 pm
by LEXX
I knew the show would probably go down the shitter after the last climatic episode. But I didn't know it was going to be this bad. D&D and HBO is the reason why GRRM haven't release his next book yet. It's so fucking obvious they are holding the book back.

Re: HBO's Game of Thrones

Posted: May 6th, 2019, 5:30 pm
by Nomis
The pacing felt very off*... And sorry huge amount of text incoming lol
I did like that they spent some time burning the dead and I felt that it really got going once Jon and Daenerys had their talk. Sure, it's weird that Jon's quest to safe the living isn't even handled in dialogue but I guess the more important thing is having to deal with him having a stronger claim on the Iron Throne than Daenerys. I must say, that for me Daenerys continues to be one of the most interesting characters of the entire show. Yes, I really think that all that is happening to her right now is shit and I feel bad for her like a lot. But her having to deal with all these tremendous losses (only win was defeating the White Walkers mainly due to her help) makes her more compelling for me. They are setting up the Mad Queen very obviously but I think there's still some hope left for her. Definitely the most interesting arc. Jon feels too good/safe and Cersei is going to die 100% in episode 5 if not the last. Daenerys however, remains one to watch.

As for the other characters:
Brienne: YAY
Jaime: I don't get that people buy that he's full on back with Cersei LOL he's obviously pushing Brienne off to keep her out of the mess that is him getting back to King's Landing to kill Cersei.
Arya: Hell yes for keeping her word and not tell anyone about Jon. Also yes for going to King's Landing to kill Cersei but it would've been nice to talk about this with Jon and Daenerys so she can take the biggest and baddest bitch out of the equation. Would've saved them some trouble...
Sansa: mother of god of course Sansa immediately spills the beans to Tyrion... Smh I'm liking Sansa less and less. Not even acknowledging Daenerys was a huge help against the dead, damn. She's gotten stuck up.
Sam and Gilly: I honestly couldn't care less. Please let that shot with Ghost be the last one of them.
Tormund: I hope this is his happy ending, a pity for him it's not with Brienne but he lives, one of the most hilarious characters while never overdoing it.
Gendry: yay a true Baratheon. That's it I guess.
Tyrion: I still have hopes for Tyrion because he chooses to stick with Daenerys. Also one of the most interesting characters to watch. His upcoming choices are going to be very big ones.
Varys: handling exactly as I thought he would. He's obviously going to die before the end, Melisandre foretold so. Preferably by the fire of Drogon.
Missandei: a real shame and sad but she never became this fully fledged character to really root for I guess.
Rhaegal: fuck this shit, he deserved better.
Cersei: the biggest villain continues to be so. I can't wait to see how her life is going to end. It's going to be one for the ages, in whatever way it happens**
Qyburn: never liked him never will lol
The Hound: Cleganebowl incoming, bet he dies killing his brother.
The Prince in Dorne: guess we'll see him next week helping Daenerys?
Daenerys: like I said, most interesting by far. Will Daario come to her aid? Yara definitely will. Would be pretty something if she decides to go back to Essos or something in the end LOL or end up being pregnant from Jon which would be her best outcome i.e. guarantee to stay alive***.

*Look, this season feels so oddly shaped, narratively. They are putting the emphasis on who's going to rule after Cersei's defeat, whomever die trying. So I still think this could turn out to be a head on struggle of Jon vs Daenerys after Cersei has finally died. Jon has been presented too honest once more and Daenerys wants what's hers still... The fact that ruling together has been mentioned twice says something too.
It feels too much like a transition episode, the dead have been dealt with, guess there's not so much to talk about, and the real problem is now Cersei. Who's only been presented as still being ice-cold. Although I thought I did notice Cersei waiting for Qyburn's answer to Euron to make sure Euron buys that she's actually pregnant. So I guess that she's not.
**It's pretty cool that Sapochnik got to show her truly claiming the Iron Throne and now highly likely showing her losing it as well. If he can rival her downfall with her rise, damn, we're in for something.
***what about her vision in S2? what does it really mean now
I can't wait to see the next episode. Miguel has proven again and again to be this show's best director. I'm more than confident he will nail it. I just hope D&D nail it too.

Re: HBO's Game of Thrones

Posted: May 6th, 2019, 6:27 pm
by Allstar
This episode is 60% on RT. Surpassed The Long Night as the second worst reviewed ep in the series.

Re: HBO's Game of Thrones

Posted: May 6th, 2019, 6:55 pm
by Vader182
With so much negativity towards D&D (some justified), here's a literary flourish in episode 4 i thought was really strong writing:
They used the victory celebration of the Battle of Winterfell to show how isolated Dany really is in Westeros. She sees everything Jon has that she never will, she sees the kind of loyalty you have to earn, not command. The kind she used to have. She's a ruler without a tight support system, with few friends and few allies. And worst of all, she's losing Jon. And now, she's losing another child and her best friend.

Using the victory celebration as a springboard for her end game arc, where she's going to confront her history and bloodline to see if she can truly "ascend" past her Mad Queen tendencies, is the kind of poetic and economical writing that gets overlooked often.

I mostly loved the first 30 minutes this episode, and this is a big reason why.

-Vader

Re: HBO's Game of Thrones

Posted: May 6th, 2019, 7:03 pm
by Allstar
Vader182 wrote:
May 6th, 2019, 6:55 pm
With so much negativity towards D&D (some justified), here's a literary flourish in episode 4 i thought was really strong writing:
They used the victory celebration of the Battle of Winterfell to show how isolated Dany really is in Westeros. She sees everything Jon has that she never will, she sees the kind of loyalty you have to earn, not command. The kind she used to have. She's a ruler without a tight support system, with few friends and few allies. And worst of all, she's losing Jon. And now, she's losing another child and her best friend.

Using the victory celebration as a springboard for her end game arc, where she's going to confront her history and bloodline to see if she can truly "ascend" past her Mad Queen tendencies, is the kind of poetic and economical writing that gets overlooked often.

I mostly loved the first 30 minutes this episode, and this is a big reason why.

-Vader
I thought the first half was very strong as well. I made my issues clear but the overwhelming negativity is just too much. With “everything sucked” etc. Also, it’s odd to me how critics ignored issues the show had in the past and now they’re over exaggerating them in some cases. I guess expectations of final season. Also, certain people are judging the show by their modern political ideas rather than simply acknowledging how a medieval society works in regards to Jon/Dany. It’s silly really. Dany’s arc has been quite consistent and set up, bad job on them for not realizing it..not to mention all the trauma she’s been through recently with so many losses and of course Jon’s true heritage. It’s just too much for her.

Re: HBO's Game of Thrones

Posted: May 6th, 2019, 8:44 pm
by FuturePast
radewart wrote:
May 6th, 2019, 4:23 pm
I think another problem is so many people want/expect shocking twists from Game of Thrones like Ned's death, Red Wedding, Hodor that they are disappointed with just basic straightforward storytelling; which, while there certainly have been pacing and execution issues this seasons, has been mostly fine.
My two favorite episodes of the show are 609-610 (Battle of the Bastards/Winds of Winter).

100% original material, relatively few surprises or subversive storytelling. Just amazing direction, mindblowing setpieces, great writing. I don't think anyone really wants another big twist to love the show again (although there's supposedly one coming).

Re: HBO's Game of Thrones

Posted: May 6th, 2019, 8:50 pm
by Allstar
Now Where Was I ? wrote:
May 6th, 2019, 8:44 pm
radewart wrote:
May 6th, 2019, 4:23 pm
I think another problem is so many people want/expect shocking twists from Game of Thrones like Ned's death, Red Wedding, Hodor that they are disappointed with just basic straightforward storytelling; which, while there certainly have been pacing and execution issues this seasons, has been mostly fine.
My two favorite episodes of the show are 609-610 (Battle of the Bastards/Winds of Winter).

100% original material, relatively few surprises or subversive storytelling. Just amazing direction, mindblowing setpieces, great writing. I don't think anyone really wants another big twist to love the show again (although there's supposedly one coming).
Yeah, not having a big twist has certainly not been an issue.

So what’s the consensus on what will happen to Dany next ep/what she will do? Is she inevitably doomed?

Re: HBO's Game of Thrones

Posted: May 6th, 2019, 8:53 pm
by Vader182
To be honest I think
she'll go nuclear but just before she goes too far, enough to defeat Cersei's forces and destroy some of KL, but will come to her sense and somehow sacrifice herself for the realm and pave the way for Jon to sit on the Iron Throne.
All this stuff is going to be similar to Dream of Spring imo. If everything that happened in Episode 4 happened over 2 or 3 or even 4 episodes we would all probably love it. It's the crazy pacing that's creating the biggest problems. I wish everything in S8 was leading up to The Battle of Winterfell, and everything in S9 was dealing with this stuff.


-Vader