m4st4 wrote:Finally saw it. Terrible episode, worst so far. So many unnecesarry changes, I don't see the point: with Dany, Jaime, Cersei (again).

Changes are integral to film/television adaptation. All of them are overseen by GRRM, so why does it matter? What matters is whether it is compelling as a stand-alone show, not in comparison to the books. And as someone who hasn't read the books, I can say it is.

Nelson wrote:

m4st4 wrote:Finally saw it. Terrible episode, worst so far. So many unnecesarry changes, I don't see the point: with Dany, Jaime, Cersei (again).

Changes are integral to film/television adaptation. All of them are overseen by GRRM, so why does it matter? What matters is whether it is compelling as a stand-alone show, not in comparison to the books. And as someone who hasn't read the books, I can say it is.

First of all, I know why they need to change some stuff, it's pivotal if you don't want to drag your audience to death sometimes. Second, not true, GRRM is executive producer on paper, everyone knows Benioff and Weiss are the one pulling all the strings. Third, I've red them all twice, they ARE 10x better as they say and some of the changes in these (and some previouos episodes) were NOT necessarry. If it felt compelling to you, great, but check out the written material one day, you won't regret it.

m4st4 wrote:

Nelson wrote:
Changes are integral to film/television adaptation. All of them are overseen by GRRM, so why does it matter? What matters is whether it is compelling as a stand-alone show, not in comparison to the books. And as someone who hasn't read the books, I can say it is.

First of all, I know why they need to change some stuff, it's pivotal if you don't want to drag your audience to death sometimes. Second, not true, GRRM is executive producer on paper, everyone knows Benioff and Weiss are the one pulling all the strings. Third, I've red them all twice, they ARE 10x better as they say and some of the changes in these (and some previouos episodes) were NOT necessarry. If it felt compelling to you, great, but check out the written material one day, you won't regret it.

GRRM selected the production team and himself is a writer on the show.

You can't compare the books to the TV show. You just can't. They exist by themselves. That is how you gotta judge them.

Nelson wrote:

m4st4 wrote:
First of all, I know why they need to change some stuff, it's pivotal if you don't want to drag your audience to death sometimes. Second, not true, GRRM is executive producer on paper, everyone knows Benioff and Weiss are the one pulling all the strings. Third, I've red them all twice, they ARE 10x better as they say and some of the changes in these (and some previouos episodes) were NOT necessarry. If it felt compelling to you, great, but check out the written material one day, you won't regret it.

GRRM selected the production team and himself is a writer on the show.

You can't compare the books to the TV show. You just can't. They exist by themselves. That is how you gotta judge them.

Well, as an avid reader of GRRM's book serial what I can do is realize when they put some extra boob/gore when it's completely unneccesarry, or when they completely change plot points when it was perfectly clear (and clean) in ASOIAF. Sure it's fun for a while, but once or twice - it fails, and it is noticable, so I can comment on it, why not. GRRM did not select the production team, he simply gave them (HBO and B&W) his blessing, plus decided to write one episode per season (next season it will be episode 7). And I also must add how I definitely notice every tiny little detail, while in some other cases I wouldn't mind it that much, because I consider ASOIAF to be one of the best pieces of modern literature (fantasy or non-fantasy), so I'm also extra-sensitive, while trying to keep it positive since they're doing a good job with this one in general. Again, as many times before I say this: Episode 9 will change the television.

m4st4 wrote:

Nelson wrote:
GRRM selected the production team and himself is a writer on the show.

You can't compare the books to the TV show. You just can't. They exist by themselves. That is how you gotta judge them.

Well, as an avid reader of GRRM's book serial what I can do is realize when they put some extra boob/gore when it's completely unneccesarry, or when they completely change plot points when it was perfectly clear (and clean) in ASOIAF. Sure it's fun for a while, but once or twice - it fails, and it is noticable, so I can comment on it, why not. GRRM did not select the production team, he simply gave them (HBO and B&W) his blessing, plus decided to write one episode per season (next season it will be episode 7). And I also must add how I definitely notice every tiny little detail, while in some other cases I wouldn't mind it that much, because I consider ASOIAF to be one of the best pieces of modern literature (fantasy or non-fantasy), so I'm also extra-sensitive, while trying to keep it positive since they're doing a good job with this one in general. Again, as many times before I say this: Episode 9 will change the television.

If GRRM thought the changes were so unnecessary and muddled the story so badly, I think he'd probably be saying this. Or walking away from it. I mean, since he writes an episode a year he is obviously fully on-board with the universe they've adapted from his books. It's an adaptation. Translations are boring. Like the Psycho remake.

Nelson wrote:

m4st4 wrote:
Well, as an avid reader of GRRM's book serial what I can do is realize when they put some extra boob/gore when it's completely unneccesarry, or when they completely change plot points when it was perfectly clear (and clean) in ASOIAF. Sure it's fun for a while, but once or twice - it fails, and it is noticable, so I can comment on it, why not. GRRM did not select the production team, he simply gave them (HBO and B&W) his blessing, plus decided to write one episode per season (next season it will be episode 7). And I also must add how I definitely notice every tiny little detail, while in some other cases I wouldn't mind it that much, because I consider ASOIAF to be one of the best pieces of modern literature (fantasy or non-fantasy), so I'm also extra-sensitive, while trying to keep it positive since they're doing a good job with this one in general. Again, as many times before I say this: Episode 9 will change the television.

If GRRM thought the changes were so unnecessary and muddled the story so badly, I think he'd probably be saying this. Or walking away from it. I mean, since he writes an episode a year he is obviously fully on-board with the universe they've adapted from his books. It's an adaptation. Translations are boring. Like the Psycho remake.

I see you don't understand my point. I thought they were unnecessary and muddled - it's me talking here and upon reading many comments over at Winter is Coming.net today, I'm certainly not alone. And for the third time - GRRM is not the one pulling the strings, man... he even said it, dozen times. It's like J.J.Abrams on LOST or James Cameron on Dark Angel, they get lost after pilot, GRRM is curently in full swing writing his sixth masterpiece - Winds of Winter and he already delivered script for season 3, ep. 07.

So, you're defending what's right - adaptations should be devided from literary source, while I'm defending what I think would look better on screen. After all, producers are not all that perfect, all the time, they have to 'slip' from time to time - in my opinion, again. Not that it ruined the series or, gods forbid, the intergrity of the world.

I read the first two books and so far I think the second season is doing quite some interesting things with the source material and I thought this episode was actually quite good. i especially enjoyed Ygritte lecturing Jon Snow about what it means to be free because it shows that the Free Folk have a point: they are being kept out for no other reason because the other people living in Westeros don't want to share their land with them. I don't necessarily agree with Jaime but it's because we have to be reminded that he is still sort of villainous because we've seen him not so long ago in a very pathetic situation. Even if we haven't got to Ramsay yet they're sure as hell saving the best bit for the end of this season. And what a pathetic little Turncloak Theon has become, great. It will be so much fun to later on . I don't care particularly for daenerys in general. i find her to be more annoying than anything else, even in the books. I hate it when people constantly tell you how great and entitled they are to what the world has to offer them. I especially enjoy the added scenes between Tywin and Arya. They make you forget what a grumpy old man Tywin actually is in the books. Maybe it's their way of making up for the lack of Roose Bolton scenes at Harrenhall. Anyway, can't wait for the next episode .

As someone who has only read the first book, the changes don't bother me. So the book purists can complain all they like, it doesn't stop the show from being amazing. As far as I know, the Tywin/Arya stuff never happened in the books and that dynamic has been amazing with some incredible acting. The scene with Cersai and Tyrion and Cersai and Sansa gives so much depth to the Cersai character. So it's not line for line from the books, big deal. Don't like what they're doing in the show? Then go back to the books and stop complaining.

FirelordSylar wrote:As someone who has only read the first book, the changes don't bother me. So the book purists can complain all they like, it doesn't stop the show from being amazing. As far as I know, the Tywin/Arya stuff never happened in the books and that dynamic has been amazing with some incredible acting. The scene with Cersai and Tyrion and Cersai and Sansa gives so much depth to the Cersai character. So it's not line for line from the books, big deal. Don't like what they're doing in the show? Then go back to the books and stop complaining.

I think what's bothering the purists is that the show gets good ratings, good reviews whithout being bound 100% to the source material and that many people are apparently happy with that.

Batfan175 wrote:

FirelordSylar wrote:As someone who has only read the first book, the changes don't bother me. So the book purists can complain all they like, it doesn't stop the show from being amazing. As far as I know, the Tywin/Arya stuff never happened in the books and that dynamic has been amazing with some incredible acting. The scene with Cersai and Tyrion and Cersai and Sansa gives so much depth to the Cersai character. So it's not line for line from the books, big deal. Don't like what they're doing in the show? Then go back to the books and stop complaining.

I think what's bothering the purists is that the show gets good ratings, good reviews whithout being bound 100% to the source material and that many people are apparently happy with that.

Then they need to get over it.