Dark Phoenix (2019)

All non-Nolan related film, tv, and streaming discussions.
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Pretty much all the MCU characters are well developed, even more of a testament to Feige’s wizardry.

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Master Virgo wrote:
April 19th, 2018, 9:04 pm
I mean just compare the ending of Logan where it turns into superhero saves the day fighting the bad guys, which is a completely disappointing and contradictory resolution to what it so powerfully builds up in its previous two acts, to Civil War's excellent finale where five morally compromised men confront each other, every one of them with their own points of view. It's hardly even a competition.£
I thought we were discussing which film itself was bolder, not what film had the more interesting fight scene at the end?
In what messed up world are you living in where a film that brings its characters to its lowest points by making one hero (one that has connected with audience for 17 years) downright unlikable for half the film and giving one a brain disease, to the point of killing both off (not to mention the tone throughout which is creating a completely and utterly unique feel for a superhero film) is "hardly even a competition" with something like Civil War? You're ignoring the entire films that came before each one for your point and that doesn't hold up. It comes off as frankly lazy. The midway point where Xavier and the family dies is bolder than anything in Civil War's beginning two acts. But even taking the third act into account, Civil War ends with no real consequences other than Cap going into hiding. Both heroes are portrayed as coming out scratch free and agreeable...yet again, and everything wraps up in a nice little bow for audiences. Every risk Civil War takes is done in a very calculated way to keep the widest possible audience satisfied. That's not a fault of the film or Feige's way of doing things, because it works. And like I said, I think Civil War is brilliant, but it's certainly not as bold as the last scene of the film being the burial site of the franchise's lead hero.
Logan, in my opinion, has more creativity, guts, and confidence than debatably every film in the MCU, even with its minor faults in the third act. I could never see Disney successfully pulling off a similar film with one of their heroes in the same way and I could never see them being as risky as something like it. Additionally I see nothing like this happening again from any superhero franchise. I'm not an MCU hater, it's just not that difficult to see how the risks Logan takes is pretty significant and has long term effects on the superhero genre as well as the possibilities that superhero films can bring. I don't know what garbage you're smoking but keep me tf away from it

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Deadpool is already ruined by its sequel, look no further than the last trailer.

As for MCU loop... it’s nice to see that the wheel is still turning as expected: It’s generic! It’s epic! It’s improving, at least!

My two cents: whatever the hell happens with X-Men, it won’t be worse than Apocalypse... or Origins... or X-Men 3. So I’ll take it. And it may even turn out to be on the Russo levels of competency. If you’ve seen TWS and CW and you still think it’s nothing more than a superhero brawl, we should sit and talk, like for real. Give kudos where it needs to be given I say.

*not directed to Batfan, cause Batfan gonna Batfan until he chokes on the repeated offense of being rudely monotonous and predictable

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When did I reduce the entirety of Civil War to a superhero brawl?

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Logan, Civil War, Apes and Star Wars spoilers ahead.
Are you actually doing the body count thing now? What's next? You're going to tell me that because Han Solo dies in Awakens and nobody dies in Empire then the former is a more fearless film too?

Pat Stew gets the mentor's death treatment. Which is that he marks his influence on the lead character and then it's time to leave him alone to do the right thing by himself. It hardly really qualifies as bold. If anything it has been done way too many times.

Jackman was old, they had to cast someone else along the way at some point, they gave him the heroic death at the end thing. Something Marvel is going to have to do at some point too and it's really not going to make any of their films bold in that regard. If Jackman had decided to retire when he was still 10 years younger like how Bale did at the peak of success, then you could tell me that they went gutsy.

What is so fascinating about Logan is indeed the tone, the setting and the characters but all of that is at least to some extent undone when you wake up to that generic ending and realise that you were just witnessing another hollywood superhero story after all. It's as uninspired of a conclusion as it comes. Like with Apes the ending is also problematic in other regards, but it stays in tone with what the film is all about, instead of making it about fist fights and muscle and superpower determining who's going to win in the end.

What Civil War does is that it plays with the idea of making well intentioned people confronting each other and then it makes a case for why the fight has to get dirty. It's like no other superhero movie in that sense. There are clear consequences in the end, the entire film is centered around those consequences. Unless all that qualifies as consequential in your eyes is old characters dying giving the mantle to the youngins, which has been a done to death concept and a natural order for storytelling for many many years.

£

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Bacon wrote:
April 19th, 2018, 10:13 pm
When did I reduce the entirety of Civil War to a superhero brawl?
When did I mention your name or said that you did? It was a post aimed at nobody in particular, but mostly those who degrade MCU, even now, to a randomly generated remark. There’s pretty good stuff there after so many movies.

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m4st4 wrote:
April 20th, 2018, 12:31 am
Bacon wrote:
April 19th, 2018, 10:13 pm
When did I reduce the entirety of Civil War to a superhero brawl?
When did I mention your name or said that you did? It was a post aimed at nobody in particular, but mostly those who degrade MCU, even now, to a randomly generated remark. There’s pretty good stuff there after so many movies.
Wasn't sure if you meant me or not. No harm done.

@Virgo: Not to be rude or cause a debate further but you either completely misunderstood what I was saying or you're just taking on my view in the easiest way for you. I'm not discussing the body count in the films at all. Random characters dying don't give weight to situations. It's about the context of what is going on, and the context and story that Logan is going for might be more conventional in certain plot points compared to Civil War, but the way it tells its story spits in the face of a lot of audience expectation. Whether it's a better film is not what we're discussing. We're discussing which was more bold, and Logan uses more deliberate and unapologetic bold decisions in its storytelling, many of which probably alienated some audiences (I know many audiences were shocked leaving the theater because it was not what they were expecting) and Civil War, while also bold, obviously played it a little safer by comparison. I can totally see a world where Marvel greenlights another film like Civil War. I can barely even believe that Fox greenlighted Logan. One is a much bolder and more dangerous gamble when it comes to pushing boundaries. Go ahead and call Logan "just another hollywood superhero story" though, I don't care enough to keep this discussion up. I'm going to go enjoy both films cause they're both the top of what the genre has to offer outside of Nolan's films.

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Bacon wrote:
April 20th, 2018, 12:40 am
Not to be rude...
Oh really? How cute.£

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Master Virgo wrote:
April 20th, 2018, 12:59 am
Bacon wrote:
April 20th, 2018, 12:40 am
Not to be rude...
Oh really? How cute.£
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I don't like Disney's M A S S I V E share in entertainment business getting even more M A S S I V E

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