Yeah, the new thread is so much better. Mission accomplished.
Re: Controversial Opinions About Movies Part II
Posted: October 9th, 2019, 7:10 pm
by Artemis
Okay bear with me here, I think Killmonger is a better Joker and I'm talking about 2019 joker.
both have qualms with the upper echelons of society within their own stories. Killmonger actually delivers his thoughts better and after his death the hero actually takes action in making sure his wishes are fulfilled. Joker says a lot of things in his talk show interview but I don't think he ever makes it through to anyone who has the power to change things. He riles up other people in his predicament and rightfully so. Direct action is a powerful thing and the elite are scared of it.
Now here is where you see the different between Ryan Coogler and Todd Phillips. Coogler stuck to one central thesis and metaphor/allegory and built a pretty great story around it. Phillips I feel had so much he wanted to say and tackle that he just couldn't focus on one issue and instead just vomited everything on the page.
I had this random brain fart today and I kind of want to rewatch both movies to see if I can find more contrasts and similarities.
Okay bear with me here, I think Killmonger is a better Joker and I'm talking about 2019 joker.
both have qualms with the upper echelons of society within their own stories. Killmonger actually delivers his thoughts better and after his death the hero actually takes action in making sure his wishes are fulfilled. Joker says a lot of things in his talk show interview but I don't think he ever makes it through to anyone who has the power to change things. He riles up other people in his predicament and rightfully so. Direct action is a powerful thing and the elite are scared of it.
Now here is where you see the different between Ryan Coogler and Todd Phillips. Coogler stuck to one central thesis and metaphor/allegory and built a pretty great story around it. Phillips I feel had so much he wanted to say and tackle that he just couldn't focus on one issue and instead just vomited everything on the page.
I had this random brain fart today and I kind of want to rewatch both movies to see if I can find more contrasts and similarities.
8069 post. 69....niiiiiiiccccccccce
Interesting. I guess you could look at it that way.
Re: Controversial Opinions About Movies Part II
Posted: October 9th, 2019, 9:38 pm
by Vader182
i dunno killmonger is a radicalized militant leftist whereas joker is just an idiot who sorta stumbles into an ideology he only incidentally believes in
i dunno killmonger is a radicalized militant leftist whereas joker is just an idiot who sorta stumbles into an ideology he only incidentally believes in
-Vader
Which certainly adds another layer to the compare and contrast. They're both challenging their respective societies. One does it better than the other. Which is why I say Killmonger is a better Joker (2019). (I feel like I have to specify 2019 when I discuss this particular joker since it's such a departure from past iterations.)
i dunno killmonger is a radicalized militant leftist whereas joker is just an idiot who sorta stumbles into an ideology he only incidentally believes in
-Vader
Is he? I wouldn't describe him as an idiot. Chaotic with some sense of how to get the "right" kind of people to go along with his plans.
Re: Controversial Opinions About Movies Part II
Posted: October 9th, 2019, 9:46 pm
by Vader182
this is getting into spoiler territory but
the whole point is the joker doesn't even have 'plans' in Philips' version. he sorta incidentally stumbles into this ideology around him and eventually says fuck it i'll lean into that.
and yes, i think the joker here is presented in a way to make him seem unintelligent. i thought it was sorta the point, that he's "simple" in a pathetic sort of way to provoke pathos.
the whole point is the joker doesn't even have 'plans' in Philips' version. he sorta incidentally stumbles into this ideology around him and eventually says fuck it i'll lean into that.
and yes, i think the joker here is presented in a way to make him seem unintelligent. i thought it was sorta the point, that he's "simple" in a pathetic sort of way to provoke pathos.
-Vader
OK you're talking about this version of the Joker. I see. I thought you were talking about overall.