Vader182 wrote:

ChristNolan wrote:Lol that sounds like her alright.

She loves to tell people to "grow up" but will literally never talk to you again if you state an opinion she disagrees with.

Not to get unduly personal but I think anyone who's had serious conversations with her in the past knows she's not the most stable person.


-Vader

I know. It's a shame our friendship deteriorated the way it did. We became very close and then she slowly started to become this entirely different person that I did not like (she started hanging out with not so stable people which only fed that instability). Our entire long term friendship died over my opinion on a movie. A real shame.

Aaand let's get back on topic.

Snyder is a hack

ChristNolan wrote:
Snyder is a hack

Snyder actually really tried with this movie though. Like he really tried to do a good job. The Ultimate Cut was soooo much better than the theatrical cut. I feel like a lot of hate he gets is unfair. I still hate what he said about Batman Begins (like wanting Bruce to get raped in a prison, wtf man?). But I think with this film he really did try.

He still clearly is a huge fucking fanboy and you can see that with the way Bruce/Batman is presented. But I do hope that Justice League will be better.

Snyder really did seem genuinely hurt by the reception BvS initially got.

A fanboy of the visuals. Not sure if he's ever actually read a comic book though.

ChristNolan wrote: will literally never talk to you again

Mhm and I guess I was the first. That time when she stopped talking to me right after you people did that little Tinychat nonsense should've served as some sort of foreshadowing I think. I kept saying how it's a dick move especially since I supported her during her Mason phase/crisis.

God, remembering 2012 makes me all sorts of sad.

akv1984 wrote:

ChristNolan wrote:
Snyder is a hack

Snyder actually really tried with this movie though. Like he really tried to do a good job. The Ultimate Cut was soooo much better than the theatrical cut. I feel like a lot of hate he gets is unfair. I still hate what he said about Batman Begins (like wanting Bruce to get raped in a prison, wtf man?). But I think with this film he really did try.

He still clearly is a huge fucking fanboy and you can see that with the way Bruce/Batman is presented. But I do hope that Justice League will be better.

Snyder really did seem genuinely hurt by the reception BvS initially got.

He really did try, just a shame that it got somewhat hampered with the theatrical cut. I mean sure you could say that if he needs 3 hours to tell his story then he's a bad story teller, but if he does need that time, why not give it to him? Thank fuck they released this new cut.

That prison quote during the Watchmen press tour was just an example though to illustrate his point about his movies not wanting to be "comfort food", people are just latching on to that and taking it out of context like crazy....

And there's the thing - and some people I think need to understand this re: Snyder's trilogy (although we'll see if that applies to JL as much with their course correct) - there does seem to be this expectation that, like the MCU, DC similarly take a 'definitive' stance and come up with the most definitive versions of these characters and stories for their cinematic universe but no - they let the filmmakers (at least before JL) do their own takes. It's not the 'DCEU Batman/Superman', it's Snyder's Batman, Snyder's Superman - this extends to Jenkins' WW, Ayer's Skwad...any character changes between these interpretations like say with WW can be linked and transitioned (like from Jenkins' origin story to Snyder's modern day WW), that's where the organisation of the whole DCEU comes into play, but still, much more so than the MCU which has Feige have a definitive stance and then filmmakers build around it, it's the filmmakers own version/interpretation/adaptation of the character in their individual films. That, for me, is the main appeal of DC's efforts. And I'm worried that post JL, they're gonna go to the (business-wise) safer and tried-tested approach of building a 'definitive' version rather than letting the filmmakers do what they want with these IPs. That filmmaker-driver appeal will be lost.

And with Snyder/MoS/BvS - it's not for everyone, sure. I personally really enjoy this take. Like I said, my issues with BvS lay more with the execution, which the Ultimate Edition resolved. I've seen more than a few people actually say - they think Snyder's take is unique and interesting, but it's irresponsible as fuck (which I understand from a business perspective) for a 300m+ 4 quadrant franchise tentpole that has toys and cereal boxes sold etc etc to be like that, not to mention 3 hours and if not borderline R, definitely not for family audiences. Which makes me appreciate, despite the setback of being hacked down for the theatrical released, what they did here. We honestly won't get anything like it again in the future I don't think.

(read from bottom tweet to top)

I haven't seen the Ultimate Cut but how can it be that much better? OK maybe the pacing or the Africa plot but does that erase Cavills bland acting? Eisenbergs over the top, cringey performance? The dour tone? The childish, idiotic characterization of Bruce? The senseless batmobile scene? How crowded the film feels? The forgettable, pathetic Doomsday? The Martha scene? Stupid Jack in the beginning? The sometimes eye rolling CG? The not so great dialogue like Man of Steel?

If none of those things are corrected, I can't see myself giving it more than a 50 percent rating. Which I currently have it at 40.

shauner111 wrote:I haven't seen the Ultimate Cut but how can it be that much better? OK maybe the pacing or the Africa plot but does that erase Cavills bland acting? Eisenbergs over the top, cringey performance? The dour tone? The childish, idiotic characterization of Bruce? The senseless batmobile scene? How crowded the film feels? The forgettable, pathetic Doomsday? The Martha scene? Stupid Jack in the beginning? The sometimes eye rolling CG? The not so great dialogue like Man of Steel?

If none of those things are corrected, I can't see myself giving it more than a 50 percent rating. Which I currently have it at 40.

It will not improve your opinion.

antovolk wrote:
He really did try, just a shame that it got somewhat hampered with the theatrical cut. I mean sure you could say that if he needs 3 hours to tell his story then he's a bad story teller, but if he does need that time, why not give it to him? Thank fuck they released this new cut.

That prison quote during the Watchmen press tour was just an example though to illustrate his point about his movies not wanting to be "comfort food", people are just latching on to that and taking it out of context like crazy....

And there's the thing - and some people I think need to understand this re: Snyder's trilogy (although we'll see if that applies to JL as much with their course correct) - there does seem to be this expectation that, like the MCU, DC similarly take a 'definitive' stance and come up with the most definitive versions of these characters and stories for their cinematic universe but no - they let the filmmakers (at least before JL) do their own takes. It's not the 'DCEU Batman/Superman', it's Snyder's Batman, Snyder's Superman - this extends to Jenkins' WW, Ayer's Skwad...any character changes between these interpretations like say with WW can be linked and transitioned (like from Jenkins' origin story to Snyder's modern day WW), that's where the organisation of the whole DCEU comes into play, but still, much more so than the MCU which has Feige have a definitive stance and then filmmakers build around it, it's the filmmakers own version/interpretation/adaptation of the character in their individual films. That, for me, is the main appeal of DC's efforts. And I'm worried that post JL, they're gonna go to the (business-wise) safer and tried-tested approach of building a 'definitive' version rather than letting the filmmakers do what they want with these IPs. That filmmaker-driver appeal will be lost.

And with Snyder/MoS/BvS - it's not for everyone, sure. I personally really enjoy this take. Like I said, my issues with BvS lay more with the execution, which the Ultimate Edition resolved. I've seen more than a few people actually say - they think Snyder's take is unique and interesting, but it's irresponsible as fuck (which I understand from a business perspective) for a 300m+ 4 quadrant franchise tentpole that has toys and cereal boxes sold etc etc to be like that, not to mention 3 hours and if not borderline R, definitely not for family audiences. Which makes me appreciate, despite the setback of being hacked down for the theatrical released, what they did here. We honestly won't get anything like it again in the future I don't think.

(read from bottom tweet to top)

I don't think needing three hours to tell a story means he's a bad storyteller. Some stories need an incredible amount of scope and time to develop events.

Thank you for the context for that quote. I still feel like rape shouldn't be the first thing to come to mind when it comes to making sure a film isn't comfort food. I think there's a lot of things a filmmaker can do before going that route.

I do like that DC gives their directors more artistic creativity and they get a chance to have fun with these characters. Everyone hates how Superman is portrayed in these films, but honestly, I welcome it. I know some people want a total boy scout who saves old ladies and kittens from trees. Some people I know want that version of Clark/Superman in these films. But I really appreciate this Clark/Superman. It's more realistic because if a person really were to have the extraordinary powers that he has, they wouldn't be happy all the time. There would be a sadness in them. We see this character brought down to our level. I would absolutely love it if WB kept letting the directors put their own flair on these characters after JL. They have such a great roster of directors right now that it would be a shame for them to direct a "definitive" character.

I think critiques about the execution of BvS and the irresponsibility of some scenes in the film is fair for sure. Especially when you consider that these superhero movies are always marketed towards kids. I can't picture myself explaining the prison scene to a child at all.

akv1984 wrote: I think critiques about the execution of BvS and the irresponsibility of some scenes in the film is fair for sure. Especially when you consider that these superhero movies are always marketed towards kids. I can't picture myself explaining the prison scene to a child at all.

Given the film he was promoting, that quote sort of does make sense though I think. Idk.

But yeah - from a business POV it's totally fair, but from artistic, why not have this epic, adult-minded take? Again, makes me appreciate the (at first hampered) ballsiness even more.

Ant, can I ask you a question?

What do you get out of tirelessly crusading for BVS when you, yourself, don't even think it's a particularly good or great movie?


-Vader