Luke with the fish was cool
Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017)
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What is everybody’s thoughts on Hamill’s constant and obvious saltyness when it comes to Luke Skywalker’s character progression in TLJ?
http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/2018- ... the-worst/
I have a feeling that his realization of becoming pretty old is clashing with what he wanted to become again in the sequels - a complete badass. He wanted a sense of empowerment, but how is that good for your challenge as an aged actor? Isn’t it better to try and figure out this broken figure and realize the inner strength that still lies within? Honestly I’m still baffled by people who don’t get how primal and jedi-like his final moments are, I just don’t get it. Would it be better for Luke to have his lightsaber fight moment a la Yoda, Count Dooku? Or to have a higher ground and still look like the greatest fighter of them all, without swinging that blade once? I just feel like Mark’s definition of Luke for TLJ was so determined in his head that everyrhing else felt wrong... and yet he still delivered probably his best performance since ESB (not counting Mr.J).
Any other examples of epic performances that actors felt (or still feel) bad about because of their predefined ideas of what the character should be vs. the script?
http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/2018- ... the-worst/
I have a feeling that his realization of becoming pretty old is clashing with what he wanted to become again in the sequels - a complete badass. He wanted a sense of empowerment, but how is that good for your challenge as an aged actor? Isn’t it better to try and figure out this broken figure and realize the inner strength that still lies within? Honestly I’m still baffled by people who don’t get how primal and jedi-like his final moments are, I just don’t get it. Would it be better for Luke to have his lightsaber fight moment a la Yoda, Count Dooku? Or to have a higher ground and still look like the greatest fighter of them all, without swinging that blade once? I just feel like Mark’s definition of Luke for TLJ was so determined in his head that everyrhing else felt wrong... and yet he still delivered probably his best performance since ESB (not counting Mr.J).
Any other examples of epic performances that actors felt (or still feel) bad about because of their predefined ideas of what the character should be vs. the script?
I mean, isn't it telling that Hamill's criticisms are echoed by a very sizable portion of the fan base?
I don't think it's just Hamill's desire to relive past glories. For my money it comes down to how Rian's just not as in control of the material as he needed to be for a movie on this level. He really struggles to dramatize his usually very intellectual ideas. With Luke, he wanted to depict a character who made a very tough ethical decision to take himself out of the fight so he wouldn't spread evil and destruction. Like a general sacrificing his honor to eliminate WMDs from battle.
....I'm not sure that's remotely clear enough for a broad audience. It seems lost on most people. You shouldn't have to do nearly as close a reading of the text to get this. I think it's genius, but tons of people, too many really and including Hamill, seem to characterize Luke as the opposite of what Rian intended. An antagonizing coward instead of a man motivated by ideology and ethics as much as pain and failure.
Here's where it gets ugly, I think. If that basic premise of Luke isn't clear, the purpose of Luke's final hurrah--as he unites his ideological motives and pacifism with his reignited sense of purpose--won't make sense for people either. The payoff won't be there if you never totally understood the setup. And sadly, many don't understand either and it's ignorant to wholly blame audiences for that.
-Vader
I don't think it's just Hamill's desire to relive past glories. For my money it comes down to how Rian's just not as in control of the material as he needed to be for a movie on this level. He really struggles to dramatize his usually very intellectual ideas. With Luke, he wanted to depict a character who made a very tough ethical decision to take himself out of the fight so he wouldn't spread evil and destruction. Like a general sacrificing his honor to eliminate WMDs from battle.
....I'm not sure that's remotely clear enough for a broad audience. It seems lost on most people. You shouldn't have to do nearly as close a reading of the text to get this. I think it's genius, but tons of people, too many really and including Hamill, seem to characterize Luke as the opposite of what Rian intended. An antagonizing coward instead of a man motivated by ideology and ethics as much as pain and failure.
Here's where it gets ugly, I think. If that basic premise of Luke isn't clear, the purpose of Luke's final hurrah--as he unites his ideological motives and pacifism with his reignited sense of purpose--won't make sense for people either. The payoff won't be there if you never totally understood the setup. And sadly, many don't understand either and it's ignorant to wholly blame audiences for that.
-Vader
Posts: 55632
Joined:
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You’re right, especially that last part. I just don’t know how much else text would be needed to fully appeal to everybody? How much more blunt can it get, you know? I thought the point of what Jedi is supposed to be was clear on everybody but apparently not. So I wonder, how would the audiences react to Luke using Death Star 2.0 in ROTJ, as was originally intended?Vader182 wrote: ↑April 26th, 2018, 2:34 pmI mean, isn't it telling that Hamill's criticisms are echoed by a very sizable portion of the fan base?
I don't think it's just Hamill's desire to relive past glories. For my money it comes down to how Rian's just not as in control of the material as he needed to be for a movie on this level. He really struggles to dramatize his usually very intellectual ideas. With Luke, he wanted to depict a character who made a very tough ethical decision to take himself out of the fight so he wouldn't spread evil and destruction. Like a general sacrificing his honor to eliminate WMDs from battle.
....I'm not sure that's remotely clear enough for a broad audience. It seems lost on most people. You shouldn't have to do nearly as close a reading of the text to get this. I think it's genius, but tons of people, too many really and including Hamill, seem to characterize Luke as the opposite of what Rian intended. An antagonizing coward instead of a man motivated by ideology and ethics as much as pain and failure.
Here's where it gets ugly, I think. If that basic premise of Luke isn't clear, the purpose of Luke's final hurrah--as he unites his ideological motives and pacifism with his reignited sense of purpose--won't make sense for people either. The payoff won't be there if you never totally understood the setup. And sadly, many don't understand either and it's ignorant to wholly blame audiences for that.
-Vader
I would argue that Johnson finds one of the few ways to make Luke not a coward while rationalizing his non-involvement in the previous instalment
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I’d get the outrage if he didn’t explain himself after that gruesome flashback... but he did, and then some. It all made sense in the end.ArmandFancypants wrote: ↑April 26th, 2018, 6:34 pmI would argue that Johnson finds one of the few ways to make Luke not a coward while rationalizing his non-involvement in the previous instalment
I guess the majority doesn’t want to see their heroes flawed? But that is who they ultimately are, damn it.
It's clearly inevitable with Star Wars. You wouldn't see people going insane for Caesar or Wolverine getting similar treatments.£
Yep if people don’t get it it’s on them not Johnson lol.m4st4 wrote: ↑April 27th, 2018, 3:37 amI’d get the outrage if he didn’t explain himself after that gruesome flashback... but he did, and then some. It all made sense in the end.ArmandFancypants wrote: ↑April 26th, 2018, 6:34 pmI would argue that Johnson finds one of the few ways to make Luke not a coward while rationalizing his non-involvement in the previous instalment
I guess the majority doesn’t want to see their heroes flawed? But that is who they ultimately are, damn it.
Well, no. It's the most obtuse Star Wars film since AOTC
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Yeah but I was just thinking, the majority is crying: ‘that’s not mah Luke!’ so it’s not like they don’t get it, more like they don’t want it... going back to my flawed hero post. They don’t want the messy fingers Luke.
