Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017)

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m4st4 wrote:
March 16th, 2018, 12:38 am
Bacon wrote:
March 16th, 2018, 12:02 am
m4, I'm genuinely not trolling when I say this: Did you read my post? Why are you focusing on relations between directors and making actors comfortable when my posts were explaining my issue with the flaws of character development...? The only relevant contribution in your post to our discussion is your last paragraph about the importance of tension between fans when creating art.
If you honestly think that... I shall make better use of my time, next time. :thumbup:
I agree with your post, man. I'm just saying me and Virgo were past talking about director/actor relations and we were moving on to the film itself so you weren't saying something we didn't already acknowledge.
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Tbh I just woke up and skimmed the discussions to get the general gist of what was going on and my comment was directly aimed at the start of your discussion, still relevant no? No hard feelings as per usual. ;)

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m4st4 wrote:
March 16th, 2018, 12:52 am
Tbh I just woke up and skimmed the discussions to get the general gist of what was going on and my comment was directly aimed at the start of your discussion, still relevant no? No hard feelings as per usual. ;)
Sure, I guess. The post felt like you were trying to teach me something when it was something we all three were agreeing on. Glad to hear we're not on the wrong foot.

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Vader182 wrote:
March 15th, 2018, 6:00 pm
The costume designer, Michael Kaplan, straight up hated Rian. You can sense their friction and lack of chemistry in the BTS.

he said, verbatim quote, "It was a bit like going from Obama to Trump. [laughs] I don’t know if you should say that."
Not surprising when you literally write the line,
"Take that ridiculous thing off!"
in reference to one of said costume designer's key pieces of design. :lol:

Anyway, Kaplan's incredible, both here and in TFA! Can't wait for...
...Supreme Leader Ren's mad emperor robes in IX.

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The people who straight out disliked TLJ, is a tiny, vocal minority. Don't forget that.

If Rian was a douche on set that's not a good thing, but I don't see how that has anything to do with the final product and whether or not people liked the movie. I still applaud his script. After the prequels and TFA Star Wars needed to go places. And with TLJ it did.

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Bacon wrote:
March 15th, 2018, 10:36 pm
Ren's great. Luke's great. I'll say that much (and I've always thought they were the best part of the film).
But forgive me if I find the arc that Rey, who can do no wrong and obviously needs to be trained, realizes she's the messiah and can do everything herself without anyone else's help to be unsatisfying. I don't really know why I should care about her. She fails Luke's test and goes into the hole, but then that failure has no consequences from that because her failure, in turn, showed Luke's failure. Then she goes up against Snoke confidently after Luke repeatedly tells her she shouldn't and instead of struggling, she completely owns him. Luke faced Vader in Empire after a similar scene and he failed, going off instinct rather than taking all factors into account. Later, he shows extreme uncertainty and conflict within himself when face to face with the Emperor. He has emotion, had reasons for doing what he was doing, and when he decided he would rather die than give into hate we felt as though that was a big achievement for his character especially after the prior failure. Rey goes face-to-face with Snoke and immediately says she'd rather die than give in and goes through that entire sequence easy. Then when Ren asks her to join him, she says no in a fashion that is, once again, really easy. It's apparent she's not joining him as soon as he starts speaking. Rey changes from the beginning of TFA and the end of TLJ, but it's very slight and I can't get invested in her because she does so little wrong and never faces consequences for any of her actions. At the beginning of the film she's a perfect messiah looking for someone to confide in (Han, Luke, Ren, etc.) and by the end of the film she's a perfect messiah who knows she can do anything she wants lol. It just isn't interesting.
I don't know why you are comparing Rey and Luke bit by bit there. Did you want them to be exactly the same? Rey has uncertainty about different things compared to Luke, she feels the pull towards the dark side for different reasons and in different situations, she makes decisions based on different feelings.

I particularly don't understand this bit. "She can do no wrong." She utterly fails to convince Luke to mentor her, although she does manage to influence him to save the Resistance at the final moment. She can't persuade Ben into turning, but he does save her life because of how much he has started to care for her. She can't make a single move against Snoke, but she can handle one or two of his elite guards. She can't do much to stop the battering ram canon, but she finds a way to open up an escape route for the remaining Resistance members.

Her feats and failures are entangled here. Her biggest victory is to win over herself and her doubts. At the end of Awakens, because of her anger and sadness for the loss of Han, she decides to join the Resistance to fight against the First Order's tyranny, but she doesn't see herself as the Messiah, she thinks it's Luke, she just wants to be there to help him achieve that. Only at the end of Jedi she actually understands that she has to be it. It doesn't mean that she's completely bereft of all doubts about her own capabilities, but now at least she knows that she has to look inside for help, not from the outside world.

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Virgo, ma maan.

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Master Virgo wrote:
March 16th, 2018, 1:38 pm
Bacon wrote:
March 15th, 2018, 10:36 pm
Ren's great. Luke's great. I'll say that much (and I've always thought they were the best part of the film).
But forgive me if I find the arc that Rey, who can do no wrong and obviously needs to be trained, realizes she's the messiah and can do everything herself without anyone else's help to be unsatisfying. I don't really know why I should care about her. She fails Luke's test and goes into the hole, but then that failure has no consequences from that because her failure, in turn, showed Luke's failure. Then she goes up against Snoke confidently after Luke repeatedly tells her she shouldn't and instead of struggling, she completely owns him. Luke faced Vader in Empire after a similar scene and he failed, going off instinct rather than taking all factors into account. Later, he shows extreme uncertainty and conflict within himself when face to face with the Emperor. He has emotion, had reasons for doing what he was doing, and when he decided he would rather die than give into hate we felt as though that was a big achievement for his character especially after the prior failure. Rey goes face-to-face with Snoke and immediately says she'd rather die than give in and goes through that entire sequence easy. Then when Ren asks her to join him, she says no in a fashion that is, once again, really easy. It's apparent she's not joining him as soon as he starts speaking. Rey changes from the beginning of TFA and the end of TLJ, but it's very slight and I can't get invested in her because she does so little wrong and never faces consequences for any of her actions. At the beginning of the film she's a perfect messiah looking for someone to confide in (Han, Luke, Ren, etc.) and by the end of the film she's a perfect messiah who knows she can do anything she wants lol. It just isn't interesting.
I don't know why you are comparing Rey and Luke bit by bit there. Did you want them to be exactly the same? Rey has uncertainty about different things compared to Luke, she feels the pull towards the dark side for different reasons and in different situations, she makes decisions based on different feelings.

I particularly don't understand this bit. "She can do no wrong." She utterly fails to convince Luke to mentor her, although she does manage to influence him to save the Resistance at the final moment. She can't persuade Ben into turning, but he does save her life because of how much he has started to care for her. She can't make a single move against Snoke, but she can handle one or two of his elite guards. She can't do much to stop the battering ram canon, but she finds a way to open up an escape route for the remaining Resistance members.

Her feats and failures are entangled here. Her biggest victory is to win over herself and her doubts. At the end of Awakens, because of her anger and sadness for the loss of Han, she decides to join the Resistance to fight against the First Order's tyranny, but she doesn't see herself as the Messiah, she thinks it's Luke, she just wants to be there to help him achieve that. Only at the end of Jedi she actually understands that she has to be it. It doesn't mean that she's completely bereft of all doubts about her own capabilities, but now at least she knows that she has to look inside for help, not from the outside world.

£
#goodpost

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This is the only Star Wars movie to get significantly better each viewing for me.

I've watched it twice since I got it at home.


-Vader

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Williams' score also gets more and more intriguing with each viewing.

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