Joker (2019)

All non-Nolan related film, tv, and streaming discussions.
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it was an innocent question. imo, i don't think it's any more or any less unique than TDK was to Heat or Logan was to Shane, where it's a sort of remake of an existing classic into a superhero format. it's more of its own thing than some people are giving it credit for.

sadly it is as bad as ive said, though.


-Vader

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Vader182 wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 9:43 pm
sadly it is as bad as ive said, though.
TIL stating things as a fact rather than opinion automatically makes me right

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to quote MZS, at what point did people have to put “in my opinion” in front of a statement that is clearly an opinion?


-Vader

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Team Bacon here, Vader is acting as elitist and condescending here as he did with The Revenant. Don’t really care though, I’m perfectly cool with Vader now, just going to call a spade a spade. You don’t have to state “in my opinion” but there’s a way to express your opinion that doesn’t come across as belittling others opinions.

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I, too, sensed condescension in that post. It’s a common theme. Only morons can possibly enjoy this movie.

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DHOPW42 wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 7:15 pm
Mindheist wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 6:04 pm
Brilliant brilliant film. What I didn't like: Too much reading. His rant at the end was a little too on the nose. Not sure how to explain it. But the subtleties of the rest of the film make up for it.
Not to be nitpicky - as I agree that the end speech was quite on the nose - but what other parts of the film are subtle? :D I thought almost the whole film was really on the nose and obvious...
The entire first act in which the movie is trying *so hard* to make you sympathize with him is awful. I hate movies that try so hard to manipulate the audience’s emotions and this is one of the worst offenders.

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The entire first act in which the movie is trying *so hard* to make you sympathize with him is awful. I hate movies that try so hard to manipulate the audience’s emotions and this is one of the worst offenders.
Hmm, beacuse maybe it's a story "told" by Joker himself? And that's the point - to excuse himself?
And besides that what is so manipulating about showing guy's poor life?
Lots of people really do belive in some "sanctity of life no matter what" apparently. Funny to see how people don't give a fuck about what has Arthur gone through and how "he is weak-ass pitiful scum" but on the other hand, for instance, they will cry and whine over victims of... wait... wait for it... just a moment... "cyberbullies" ( :lol: :lol: :lol: ). Because "words can hurt as hard as fists". Yeah.
Last edited by CASE on October 10th, 2019, 4:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

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anarchy wrote:
October 10th, 2019, 3:23 am
DHOPW42 wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 7:15 pm
Mindheist wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 6:04 pm
Brilliant brilliant film. What I didn't like: Too much reading. His rant at the end was a little too on the nose. Not sure how to explain it. But the subtleties of the rest of the film make up for it.
Not to be nitpicky - as I agree that the end speech was quite on the nose - but what other parts of the film are subtle? :D I thought almost the whole film was really on the nose and obvious...
The entire first act in which the movie is trying *so hard* to make you sympathize with him is awful. I hate movies that try so hard to manipulate the audience’s emotions and this is one of the worst offenders.
Lol, no.
The film presents him as a pathetic, pitiful figure, not a sympathetic one. He struggles financially, sure, but he keeps a gun he knows he's not supposed to have and then lies about it later because he likes the high it gives him when his life is totally miserable, leading to him losing his job. There, for example, he contributes to his own misery because it would have been easy to just tell the truth but it also would likely have meant having to give back the gun...He gets beat up on by the Wall Street guys but he goes from self-defense to brutal murder in a heartbeat because he waits for the last guy to show himself, follows him and then shoots him in the back as he's trying to get away. He then spends almost the entire rest of the film covering his tracks with regards to the murder. He is not sympathetic at all just because his life's been terrible. He's still selfish and doesn't think about the problems that other people legitimately go to protest over at all. He's entirely fixated on himself and in his own head and does not care about others at all, he's very narcissistic in that way.

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And speaking of scums.
I bet that those Wall Street pieces of crap would kill Arthur with no blink if they would be sure that they wouldn't be caught. Just for fun. That type of people.

I just like the message of this movie: be nice people to each other, have some empathy because somebody maybe will run out of it. Don't make jokes of someone because he's diffrent. And especially don't make such jokes in american highschools :P
There, for example, he contributes to his own misery because it would have been easy to just tell the truth but it also would likely have meant having to give back the gun...
Yeah, just tell the truth and everybody would be just fine about that and walk home with no consequences for Arthur whatsoever.
See Arthur? It's that simple you stupid coward. Just loose your job instantly with ill mother back at home. Genius!
And don't tell me that his later actions were just way worse beacuse people (especially with fucked up brain I imagine) don't work that way where they have every possible action forethought "back and forth". Life is a freaking fractal not just a chess piece with two possible moves.
Do you really belive that Arthur was some blood thirsty demon? That he would keep the gun if he knew where eventually would it lead to? I'm not sure, maybe (beacuse after all basically life itself is shitting on him), maybe not.
I will leave you on your moral pedestal with that.
Last edited by Ruth on October 10th, 2019, 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: stop double posting

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Vader182 wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 9:26 pm
Bacon, what do you think is unique about Joker?


-Vader
How on earth does this simple question sound condescending to you? :eh:

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