1. Cutter reacts.
2. Dunno bout the accent, haven't thought about it.
3. His whole plan all along was to lure Borden in so he could rob him off his life and everything he has.
prince0gotham wrote:1. Cutter reacts.
2. Dunno bout the accent, haven't thought about it.
3. His whole plan all along was to lure Borden in so he could rob him off his life and everything he has.
1: I mean he doesn't seem surprised he's risen from the dead!
2: I found this one out, that hes always been Lord Cauldlow, he was putting on the American accent actually.
3: So going to Colorado and acquire a teleportation machine from Tesla was all to frame Borden? I thought Borden made Angier go there on a wild goose chase?
prince0gotham wrote:1. Cutter reacts.
2. Dunno bout the accent, haven't thought about it.
3. His whole plan all along was to lure Borden in so he could rob him off his life and everything he has.
1: I mean he doesn't seem surprised he's risen from the dead!
2: I found this one out, that hes always been Lord Cauldlow, he was putting on the American accent actually.
3: So going to Colorado and acquire a teleportation machine from Tesla was all to frame Borden? I thought Borden made Angier go there on a wild goose chase?
3. It changes. Angier initially went there because he thought that was the key to Borden's secret. At that point he wanted to just steal his trick and make it better. When he found out what the machine was capable of (the new machine) he realized the possibilities. He felt Borden has stolen from him so much (allthough Angier was his own worst enemy and Borden was his external projection of Angier's real enemy - himself) that he decided to do what he was going to do. Repeat the trick enough times till Borden comes along and he's able to frame him. Then he eventually did it and that's that. Angier lost enough of his human side a lot earlier in the story so this wasn't a far stretch for him.
1: He was surprised. He said "I saw you on a SLAB for god's sake!". Then his attention shifted from the fact that he's alive to the fact about what his actions really mean. Suddenly him being alive stopped being so important (also having in mind that he's a magician and also having in mind that Cutter already knew that the machine had some horrible secret that would be very hard to believe). Borden being innocent and the murder being a form of a suicide + frame was the important thing and it all went towards that.
Dream Thief wrote:
1: I mean he doesn't seem surprised he's risen from the dead!
2: I found this one out, that hes always been Lord Cauldlow, he was putting on the American accent actually.
3: So going to Colorado and acquire a teleportation machine from Tesla was all to frame Borden? I thought Borden made Angier go there on a wild goose chase?
3. It changes. Angier initially went there because he thought that was the key to Borden's secret. At that point he wanted to just steal his trick and make it better. When he found out what the machine was capable of (the new machine) he realized the possibilities. He felt Borden has stolen from him so much (allthough Angier was his own worst enemy and Borden was his external projection of Angier's real enemy - himself) that he decided to do what he was going to do. Repeat the trick enough times till Borden comes along and he's able to frame him. Then he eventually did it and that's that. Angier lost enough of his human side a lot earlier in the story so this wasn't a far stretch for him.
1: He was surprised. He said "I saw you on a SLAB for god's sake!". Then his attention shifted from the fact that he's alive to the fact about what his actions really mean. Suddenly him being alive stopped being so important (also having in mind that he's a magician and also having in mind that Cutter already knew that the machine had some horrible secret that would be very hard to believe). Borden being innocent and the murder being a form of a suicide + frame was the important thing and it all went towards that.
3: I get it now, thank you. what do you mean a 'far stretch'?
1: I think you're referring to angier being on the slab, im talking about borden.
Oh yeah I thought you were talking about the Angier-Cutter scene where Cutter sees Angier's alive.
Well that 'nod' Cutter gave to Borden is ambiguous. He might have thought him for Fallon, He was wearing that hat so he might have worn the beard as well. + it was dark. Right now I don't think it's impossible for them having met and Cutter having known that Fallon is Borden. After all Cutter thought that Borden used a double all along so I doubt it would've been a big surprise to him too. It's a deliberately hidden detail.
Cutter either thought that was Falon or thought it was Borden's double or somehow found out he had a twin before Angier did. The nod as a sign of agreenment and conspiracy was the important thing there and the rest didn't have a real impact on the plot so.
All that + after that scene the movie skips to the beginning where we see Cutter doing the prestige speech and the bird trick and we see Fallon/Borden or whoever walk right and then another nod... so that's enough to assume they've conspired against Angier and the MOMENT when Cutter actually found out about them being twins loses importance once again.
PIAF: far stretch was to say it wouldn't take him too much to jump from 'injure Borden's fingers' to 'frame Borden so he faces the gallows'.
prince0gotham wrote:Oh yeah I thought you were talking about the Angier-Cutter scene where Cutter sees Angier's alive.
Well that 'nod' Cutter gave to Borden is ambiguous. He might have thought him for Fallon, He was wearing that hat so he might have worn the beard as well. + it was dark. Right now I don't think it's impossible for them having met and Cutter having known that Fallon is Borden. After all Cutter thought that Borden used a double all along so I doubt it would've been a big surprise to him too. It's a deliberately hidden detail.
Cutter either thought that was Falon or thought it was Borden's double or somehow found out he had a twin before Angier did. The nod as a sign of agreenment and conspiracy was the important thing there and the rest didn't have a real impact on the plot so.
All that + after that scene the movie skips to the beginning where we see Cutter doing the prestige speech and the bird trick and we see Fallon/Borden or whoever walk right and then another nod... so that's enough to assume they've conspired against Angier and the MOMENT when Cutter actually found out about them being twins loses importance once again.
PIAF: far stretch was to say it wouldn't take him too much to jump from 'injure Borden's fingers' to 'frame Borden so he faces the gallows'.
I've never thought of that, I mean I've never thought how exactly Cutter knows Borden's secret, for me it's always been something we don't know, somehow... But reading your post I think there more logic idea is that Cutter mad at Angier goes to Fallon to tell him the truth and then Fallon revealed himself as Borden's twin...
It is possible, but I don't think any version is important. I mean what you proposed would be quite logical and maybe the most probable thing for him to do. But there were two reasons for Nolan not including that in the movie:
1. Not really important.
2. It ruins the flow of the last 10 minutes of the movie. A scene with Cutter going to Fallon and them having a chat about it would ruin the pace the movie was starting to pick up after we saw Borden shouting THEY'RE GONNA BLOODY HANG ME. Not to mention ruin the surprise of those nods + the surprise of realizing that the beginning was actually the end (the prestige speech) and the surprise of realizing that the whole movie was one big REAL Prestige. If we saw Cutter and Fallon conspiring we wouldn't be surprised and the impact at the end wouldn't be the same.
It's funny because if we see how the 'Transported man' evolves we can also clearly see how the movie evolves as well.
It's paralel.
Transported man -> Real Transported man.
Fake Prestige -> Real Prestige.
prince0gotham wrote:Oh yeah I thought you were talking about the Angier-Cutter scene where Cutter sees Angier's alive.
Well that 'nod' Cutter gave to Borden is ambiguous. He might have thought him for Fallon, He was wearing that hat so he might have worn the beard as well. + it was dark. Right now I don't think it's impossible for them having met and Cutter having known that Fallon is Borden. After all Cutter thought that Borden used a double all along so I doubt it would've been a big surprise to him too. It's a deliberately hidden detail.
Cutter either thought that was Falon or thought it was Borden's double or somehow found out he had a twin before Angier did. The nod as a sign of agreenment and conspiracy was the important thing there and the rest didn't have a real impact on the plot so.
All that + after that scene the movie skips to the beginning where we see Cutter doing the prestige speech and the bird trick and we see Fallon/Borden or whoever walk right and then another nod... so that's enough to assume they've conspired against Angier and the MOMENT when Cutter actually found out about them being twins loses importance once again.
PIAF: far stretch was to say it wouldn't take him too much to jump from 'injure Borden's fingers' to 'frame Borden so he faces the gallows'.
I've never thought of that, I mean I've never thought how exactly Cutter knows Borden's secret, for me it's always been something we don't know, somehow... But reading your post I think there more logic idea is that Cutter mad at Angier goes to Fallon to tell him the truth and then Fallon revealed himself as Borden's twin...
Thanks, to you both. You illuminated it to me now lol.
How would you say the film is constructed like a magic trick?
Well I've said that in other threads. The movie treats the audience pretty much like its story treats the normal audience that's in the story (the people paying for tickets to see the magician's performances) and Angier. You're pretty much Angier while you're watching the movie. Prestige is a continuation of Memento's finale logic. People lie to themselves to be either happy or to have a reason to go on, because they're unable to let go and get over it and they don't know what to do with themselves if there is no drama and tragedy that would drive them forwards. Angier was a bit like Lenny in that sense. Without the condition though. In other words Lenny was letting himself be blinded using his short term memory loss as a tool to fool himself. Angier was fooling himself out of anger and hatred. He needed a reason. An emotional motive upon which he could thrive. God knows if he would've made it as a magician if it wasn't for that particular revenge motive.
That said: you, Viewer, yes, you, sitting there, reading my diary... are willing to be fooled. So you could go on. So you could go on watching the trick and get a kick out of it. So you could go on with your happy life. So you could go on watching the movie while constantly denying that the twist at the end could be so obvious. You won't allow yourself to admit that it hasn't been disguised enough for a reason. There were a lot of details that told the secret and they weren't just 'foreshadowing'. The subtlety of the trick makes it invisible for some actually.
The audience of this movie consists of three parts. There are the ones that didn't notice the details and were surprised by the end. They thought the movie ended there and there wasn't anything more to it. Then there are those who were dissapointed by how obvious it was. They knew Borden and Fallon were twins and thought that it was cheap to leave it so. The third part is that part of the audience that, after being fooled, after assuming that 'this can't be it, it can't be so obvious' (pretty much like Angier denied that Borden's using a bloody DOUBLE), realized that it's all part of the trick and that they're supposed to be linked to Angier and the blind audience. Pretty much like bluffing in poker.
