filmfanatic wrote:Burton's atmosphere does not fit Batman though. As a filmmaker, he always tries to paint everything in his pseudo german expressionism veneer. I don't think Batman translates well to that style. Batman's roots are noir and Nolan captures that to a T.
filmfanatic wrote:
ChristopherNolanFan wrote:
What I hate about Burton is that he is solely style over substance. He creates films that are dark for the sake of them being dark; it's ridiculous.
I agree. I think he is talented but he really needs to branch out. His two best films (Ed Wood and Big Fish) are big departures fro his usual style. It's impeccable but overused (and in some cases, like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, it backfires horribly).
I completely agree. Burton's Gotham is more like a dream than reality, it looks more like a set than an actual city. Like his Batman fillms, it's too macabre to be taken seriously and connect to. It's a shame that Burton has been increasingly falling back on his own conventions instead of challenging himself in his creative slump.
Batman is a character inspired by pulp and film noir which Nolan beautifully translates onto film. His use of colours is also fantastic (which can also be attributed to Mr. Pfister). Batman Begins had a very gritty brow-tone to it, The Dark Knight had prominent blue-tones, symbolizing seriousness and isolation. Batman's world is exactly like ours, and that's what Nolan has captured on screen.
“I completely disagree. If Nolan didn't show the scenes with Bruce and Mr. Reese it would have been an unresolved plot point.”
They could have shown the beginning and the end of the scene, but when it kept interrupting the hospital scene, it just ruined it.
It should have been removed from the draft and I don’t mind some plot points not being explained as the film still works.
How did the Joker get all those explosives in the hospital in secret?
Who cares and I’m sure there are lots more in the film.
The parallel action scenes were well over done in The Dark Knight, it worked with the bank scene and the main Batpod action sequence, but the technique started to get over used
“Plus, it allowed the entire confrontation between The Joker and Harvey to occur in the first place.”
How did it???
Anyway with interrupting the scene all the time, with a music score that wasn’t consistent between the two scenes like the other parallel scenes before it, which just added to the frustration.
“Also, to assert that the film had no story is downright ridiculous.”
What was the plot of the film then?
Because it was Cops and robbers to me, where is the Joker now etc?
“The reason Nolan doesn't show everything to the audience is because he doesn't need to. The best filmmakers let the audience fill in the gaps themselves and add their own interpretation. You don't need to be spoon-fed.”
And that was my point with the boat scene, we didn’t need to know what was going on in the boat and he could have cut the length of the film down like with the Reese part. Just needed to see the start and the end of the Reese part, I didn’t need to see Gordon and Bruce Wayne using the latest Nokia phone.
“The boat scene is also far less optimistic than most believe. 3/4 of the people on the civilians' boat voted to blow-up the other boat. 75% of the people, who more or less represent Gotham City, condoned such action, it's just that none were able to put it into action when push came to shove.”
Because deep down they felt it was morally wrong and didn’t want to do it. It’s like when someone threatens another but doesn’t go through with it.
Like when the man stood up and said I would do it and couldn’t go through with it.
The Dark Knight runs several scenes parallel to each other to convey the razor-sharp immediecy which is present throughout the film. Again, I don't see this as one of the film's weaknesses in the least.
You don't know the plot? There was almost too much of it. The "cops and robbers" elements of the film is the base level as the film is more of a crime-thriller than it's predecessor. From that stems individual converging plot lines, thematic and moral elements, character arcs etc.
In truth I can't change your opinion, mine is no more right than yours.
The only part where the parallel action became a slight detriment was with the constant cutting back and forth between Batman in the abandoned building and the citizens and prisoners on the ferries. It's basically what kept the heroic theme from "Like a Dog Chasing Cars" from being used in the film.
ChristopherNolanFan wrote:
What I hate about Burton is that he is solely style over substance. He creates films that are dark for the sake of them being dark; it's ridiculous.
He's so one note. Burton's films are ultimately niche. They're aimed at goths and wannabe goths.
Nolan's films are more comparable with the greats of cinema - Scorcese and moreover Coppola...
Location: We can't stop here, this is Bat Country!
I've met people who think the same as you, BB is an amazing movie and it has a very good story, but personally I like TDK better because for me it went beyond BB and made a step forward the story of Batman, is just a very good plot and I went to watch it aware that it was a sequel which gave it a more "exquisite taste" kinda thing lol
I don't know what it is. But I still love Begins over The Dark Knight. Don't get me wrong, Dark Knight is awesome, Begins is just cooler I think. And Liam Neeson needs more villainous roles.
Location: We can't stop here, this is Bat Country!
CyranoJones wrote:I don't know what it is. But I still love Begins over The Dark Knight. Don't get me wrong, Dark Knight is awesome, Begins is just cooler I think. And Liam Neeson needs more villainous roles.
This was the first Nolan film I saw, and will always be my favorite. Although I agree, BB and TDK are two different movies. Both equally dark, both dealing with strong psychological morals, both have a gritty feel to them that I enjoyed more than Burton's version (which was cheesy, imho), but so different in terms of atmosphere and character development.
However, I'd like to see Arkham Asylum in the fashion of TDK's Gotham City. That would be a huge improvement over the disappointing depiction of Arkham in BB.
